Unity Bugs and R32 (and Lot Selection)

Forgive me if this is posted somewhere (search in a PHP VB/WP forum is near useless), and if it was mentioned in the post mortem (its very long and I had to watch/listen while doing chores), and also if my eyes happened to skip over it in the recent updates - I even read through the "final wipe and lot selection..." thread - but:

Did the whole hookup with Unity onsite reveal the possibility of the bugs being fixed for R32? I havent been able to play in like 2 months due to them (well, play in a meaningful way, that is), so I have fallen off with news and happenings in SoTA world.

Last I heard, if these bugs werent fixed by the middle of this month (July 2016), then the housing lot selection was going to be bumped ahead N-many months, one month at a time, until the Unity bugs were fixed. Is this still the case? Can someone either link me to any updates on this, or at least let me know its in the postmortem and Ill re-watch it? What is the status in general?

It appears as though the final wipe for R32 is still on. Is the housing lot selection still going to start on July 28, or is that bumped until R33+ ?

Thanks in advance. Also it feels nice to be excited for final wipe, even if gameplay state is unbearable for us freedom-software loving linux nerds.

 

which linux bug would interfere with lot selection, given that you have time to get in place? i haven't stopped playing, it's merely been annoying.

given that, you can avoid them by using the 32-bit client, though that'll keep you out of the heaviest scenes as they take more ram than the process is allowed. it also may take some futzing with installing 32-bit libraries to get it to run.

 

@DarkStarr himself has been quoted (somewhere... its too much work to find data on this stuff, really - it might be in the R31 release notes) as saying that its an unfair advantage others have when those playing on the less-buggy client have a less inhibited experience around the world. Those are my words and interpretation, though I believe that was his intention.

"getting in place" is a challenge itself. also, we're starting with fresh avatars, so getting high enough level to survive some of the most basic encounters is much more challenging on linux than on windows. there is far more lag on the linux client than the windows client. there are far more often CTDs on the linux client. getting resurrected from dying is a huge challenge (if possible at all) on the linux client, where on windows you can just drift through most zones and get an ankh on the other side. you cant heal nearly as good on the linux client, given the spell interface issues. you cant ever be "rested" to regain hitpoints normally on the linux client, due to the permanently-walking bug. you also fall through the world geometry on the linux client where its far less common on the windows client.

right, an unfair advantage, to those of us whom have pledged thousands of dollars for the last 3+ years to get an advantage in lot selection. is someone really expected to just let go of their favorite town, that they spent thousands to try and place a lot in, because the framework bugs arent fixed for their client yet?

another unfair advantage - those on the windows client dont have to mess with such things. plus I do a fair amount of software development on this machine, and do not want to tinker too much with my environment, and at this time, cant afford another disk to install another OS, and also refuse to modify my primary development machine to play games.

ideally, yes, I could spend a gruesome few days trying to get to my lot of choice, log out, and just log in there when it comes time to select one. what do i do when that lot is taken? when all the lots in that area are taken? how about all the lots in that town are taken? the obstacles of leaving the zone and going to a different zone are immense, and windows-client players dont face those obstacles. what do i do when i CTD for hours on end trying to find a new zone to place my lot? what if i need to go to the other side of Novia to find a lot I like, when traversing the world at lower levels is nearly impossible on the linux client?

It makes buying your way up to a higher selection group far less valuable, as it vastly extrapolates the time it takes to get (survive) to a lot and claim it. I also dont predict my top 3 lots will be available, and I do predict ill need to walk around the continent finding a place I like. it saddens me to know ive been waiting for the moment for years, only to know it will be quite uncomfortable, if possible at all, to find a decent lot when the framework bugs are so hard to work around.

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Im a technologist, and while i loathe microsoft more than anything on earth, I actually do have access to a windows box I can play on. That isnt the point - the above is merely an attempt to empathize with those whom are less technologically wealthy as I. Its not fair to the linux players, thats all. So while I am willing to play in microsoft filth for a week or so in order to do the lot selection process, its grossly unfair, and completely unfair to those linux players who dont have many computers laying around their house.

If the lot selection moves forward as planned, well, ok. I am merely trying to find out information on that so I can plan accordingly. Im going to need to shift work and social time around so I can get to a reasonable level and scout out my lot before my group, and Id like to know if I can do that in the comfort of my own computer or need to adapt to microderp windonts for a while.

 

We are working very hard to solve the issues with stability, especially Linux. We have been working very closely with Unity and we have some promising leads.

 

For me, none of the bugs interfere with selecting a lot. They do, however, greatly interfere with general game play and my enjoyment.

 

btw if @DarkStarr reads this, I am rewatching the R31 post mortem more carefully this time, and I do commend you and your team on your efforts to try Unity's workarounds. I know this situation is immensely difficult and likely doesnt seem like there are any good options. I understand the final decision will be what you feel benefits the greatest portion of the community, and that its not possible to make us all happy all the time .

ah yeah, right on, posted while I was posting

 

well, if you read my big rant up there, interfering with general game play = interfering with lot selection. if what takes a non (less?) buggy client 2 hours to accomplish takes the linux client 9-12 hours to accomplish (spending most of the time reloading, zoning, crashing, reloading, dying, crashing, etc), id say thats interfering with lot selection. again, i myself will just dig up my win7 install key and resurrect an old windows box, but not everyone has the luxury of 6 computers in their house. i also really just wanna play on linux :-D

 

I really hope that you all can get some of these fixes on the QA server before R32 is published.

 

I know what to do in order to mitigate the problems and I don't believe that I'll have any trouble getting to the lots in time to stake my claim, even if I had to go to the Drackvald region.

 

As long as I'm careful not to die, I've been much LESS crashy the last few releases than my windows friends.

...i guess that means i have an unfair advantage using linux.

 

Would using Wine to run Windows version of SotA be a viable option for Linux users at least for during the lot selection process?

Even in Windows, I still crash quite often between scene change, but never during the scene itself recently. So I kinda hope that I could just wait at the spot I want and then claim it when the time comes.

 

Hey @Black Tortoise , I am also a Linux user and technologist, and like you, I hadn't played in the last few months. I first experimented with Slackware in the 1990's and then, about 10 years ago, I made the rather extreme decision at that time to remove all Windows installations from my home desktops and servers, and switched them over to Ubuntu. Today, I run a mix of Ubuntu and Arch, with SOTA on my Ubuntu machine. I love using Linux and don't own a Windows PC.

It has been many years since there has been a reason for me to use Windows at home (excluding the workplace, which is outside of my control). I don't use IDE's when programming (I just use text editors or build my own IDE), Firefox works for every web site I need to access (although sometimes there is the occasional user-agent string that needs to be spoofed). I do all my 3D modeling/printing and microcontroller programming using Linux tools. I don't use VPN software, but built my own (which is easy with Linux/UNIX). I don't use HTML editors, but built my own generators. I don't use social networks either, but built my own communication networks (which is easy since Web 2.0 tools are open-source and plentiful on Linux).

It is a productive, utilitarian existence, with no dependencies on proprietary 3rd parties, and problems are simple and quickly solvable. I only play games that work well in Linux or, if there is no other option, run them in WINE if possible. If these are not options, I will not play the game. There are still issues with certain streaming services that require proprietary DRM, but I don't subscribe to them if they don't work. And I won't buy any new hardware that doesn't work well with Linux.

Over the last few months while waiting for the SOTA final wipe, I played some java-based Pixel Dungeon and Minecraft, graphically pixelated/voxelated, but, through simple rules, they have an emergent complexity that is rewarding.

What's interesting is that in these games, the visuals are crude and ridiculous in some cases (arm is a blocky stub in Minecraft, digging and blocks flying everywhere), but the world seems consistent. In survival mode, it is wonderful trying to build lit shelters during the fast-moving day, so that monsters won't attack you during the night. Your work is rewarding, you have a home base to expand, the world shapes around your choices, things that are supposed to be in SOTA.

In R31, the graphics are very pretty, but not very consistent. Besides the *big* Linux bugs that others have mentioned, when I go to chop a tree, I wait and watch as my character often misses the tree and chops in empty air. Simple things like that really bug me as they break suspension of disbelief and negate the benefit of having those pretty graphics. It is like in the TV version of Die Hard 2 when a dubbed Bruce Willis says "Yippie-ki-yay Mr. Falcon!"... and the film suddenly becomes a Bizzaro world. But in Minecraft, chopping trees is more interactive and fun, and even though the missing tree trunk leaves blocks hanging in mid-air, it is somehow pleasing, being by design. The importance of this type of consistency cannot be overstated--this holds true for other storytelling art forms like film, animation, and fiction writing, too.

 

Really?

My linux client (which worked pretty good up until a few releases back) freezes completely on loading scenes perhaps 20% of the time causing me to reboot. When I don't freeze, I find that I simply can't use mouselook (the camera bounces around so badly its unplayable).

I can't level nearly as well as I used to be able to based on these issues. Quite frankly I can't play.... its just not worth the time to play for 10 mins, freeze, reboot.

I'm also a bit concerned about the amount of scenes that are copies of other scenes. In reading the weekly updates it became apparent that scenese that were copied and haven't been updated (to make original) can 'not' change in terms of lot placement after final wipe (makes complete sense). It sounds like there are a lot of these and perhaps we need a couple of more releases to a) ring out the unity bugs b) give the world devs a chance to make more scenes unique.

 

I agree that there are a lot of bugs that greatly affect playability. As long as I use the 64 bit client, I don't wear a cloak, I don't die, I don't fall in the water and I don't use the coconuts anywhere but the world map, I can get to where I need to go in order to claim a lot.

 

I'm kind of shocked to hear the Linux version has tons of problems considering the Mac version's near-perfect* stability.

*R31 introduced a random crash bug.

What breaks my heart about the whole "cloned scenes" thing is that, post-wipe, none of the remaining cloned scenes (particularly towns) will ever get an update with their own unique layouts.

My guess is that it's primarily because they feel like they can't change any of the scenes after the land rush.

I wish people weren't so obsessed with lot placement.