Update on Taming

Mostly copy and pasted from my answer on the other thread.
Whats the point of running a pet, if you
A - See the mob first, he cant pull it off you
B - Shoot the mob once, anytime during the fight, it aggros you and he cant pull it off you.
C - You cast even 1 heal on him, and all the aggros goes to you and he cant pull it off you.

Still a waste of EXP if you try to do things your level.

Speed is much better, the dmg is about where it should be. But they sure still die in 4-5 hits to yellows my level, and the aggro makes them not worth the focuse cost still.

The DMG is quite a bit better, which is nice. (feel its right about where its at, with what im finding)

What it comes down to, is your talking about 3-4 GMS on this pet, to watch him kill greens, unable to help or heal him. Instead of using any other 3-4 GMS to kill the mob and move on in 1/4 the speed.

The changes are in the right direction, but with the aggro the way it is, its still not worth using them over the focuse cost.

( 121 Taming, 100 Collar recov, 101 summoning, 100 combat passive, 96 the rest of the passives )
Running Obsid bear test vs skelis
Running Fero red test Vs bandits.


Edit - I understand that its sustained DPS even if the mob is on you, but im saying its not worth the max focus cost and the cut into focuse regen still, to run the pet. Over using other skills for that focuse cost.

I Feel the 2 changes that should happen to make taming NOT suck are
1- Make him have his own personal aggro like it was before. This carry over to the owner is stupid in regards to tamed pets. In what logic falls in that the pet clawing at you 90x is less of a threat then the random dude standing there?

2- If your going to keep the foucse costs as high as they are, adjust it so your BASE FOCUSE REGEN runs off your total amount, not the total after pet.
Its kind of silly when you look at it like . Obsid bear costs 225 Focuse to sustain + 40% of your focuse regen.
Maybe code it so your total isnt adjusted, and it just consistantly uses the 225, so the regen isnt adjusted. Because this is actually a pretty big deal when it comes down to using a pet / not using a pet.

Anyway, the attempt on it was good, but these 2 issues mean i still cant force myself to use it effectivly over other things.


Edit - Since i dont want to make another thread. The rest of the changes in R41 seem pretty good so far. Big fan of the adjustment to acrobatics especially.

 

Taming have been improved and some of the issues with Pets have been resolved but....

....the main issue I still have with taming is this:-

Compared to a Magic Summon, is a Tamed Pet -with all the disadvantages that come with it (eg Pet Death, Loss of Necklace slot, Summon Timer, High Skill requirements to be viable and expensive training costs) -worth using considering the sacrifices required?

At the moment, especially with the Buff to Magically Summoned creatures, Id say definately not.

I have 600 SP invested in Taming and if I do need a Pet, I still find it easier to use my Water/Ice Elemental rather than deal with all the issues that come with Tamed pets.
I have to say I'm seriously considering giving up completely on Taming especially with the 100% xp return at the moment.

Looking at Chris's blog, the way he's talking Taming is now fixed (after all he did seem to spend almost a whole day looking at all the issues with the whole Taming Profession) and it is now sorted with no further big changes required. Maybe I'm wrong, I sure hope I am, but I think this is about as good as it'll get for taming for a long while - and compared to Magic Summons it's still seriously lacking.

 

Don't forget we also lose a neck slot due to having a pet.

I like some of the changes but the focus cost is still to high. Aggro makes no sense and luckily I am in plate so I can tank for my pet (feel sorry for leather or cloth wearers) but wearing plate is just another hit on my focus.

 

Focus cost is still the major issue for Tamed Pets. You would think that Tames would have a very LOW focus cost while Summoned Magical Creatures would have a HIGH one - this would make tames more viable compared to magical Summons...but instead it seems the Magical Pets have a fairly low focus cost and tamed pets an extremely high cost in addition to all the other disadvantages - I just don't get it

 

well.. remember his words.. SUCKIT TAMERS.. at least he gave us an out.. we can recover all xp and clean the tree. I am GM in everything taming and then some. it's pretty much a waste. and ya know they never think about, you lose the neck slot completely, so those bonuses are gone, you lose a metric ton of focus to have a pet that will fight at below your level, you have to heal and res your pets and train xp to have the ability to heal and res your pet, vs a caster that can recast a new fire element anytime they want. Tamers have to wait until the timer pops up to summon a pet. and the WHOLE TREE stems to the damage of 1 sole pet, vs any of the other summon abilities of a caster. Soooo is taming worth it? I spent 17 years as a tamer in Ultima, I love pets and the challenge of taming. However in this game, after hearing the Dev's say how over powered tamers were, telling us to Suckit, telling us how unfair it would be to have a pet hold agro, ect... I am not happy. The Dev's create the game, it's a service, we pay for this service, if the service is bad then we need to go someplace else. The Game has potential but if you have to fight the Dev's every step of the way to even look at issues I don't believe it is going to be worth it. food for thought.. right now i cannot even unequip my necklace because of a renaming bug. do not try to rename a pet or you will have it too.

 

Yep, taming is still a huge waste of skillpoints!
I have all taming skills around 80 with 96 heal Creature and it still feels like a burden to me, i prefer my summoned Elementel with 60 skill...
1/4 focus cost, free neck slot, no summon timer, can't die and especially you don't need 9(!) f*cking skills to find out that you spend your hard earned silver and Exp. for nothing.

I think @Chris only tested the taming "revamp" with all skills set to 200/dev-mode.

Deeply disappointed!

 

on a side note if you get the necklace bug and can't remove it.... if you die it will let you remove it.

 

I spent a few hours fighting with my pet tonight. Damage and aggro are both a little better. The mobs didn't immediately run to me, the pet could get 5-10 seconds of damage in first.
They definitely need more babysitting now, found myself using pet heal a lot during combat.

Still quite a bit of focus drain but I'm okay with the trade off since my spider is near level 100. My summon pet would only be about level 35, so I'm not sure it would be worth having out but I'll sure test it since that would mean I'd have 300+ more focus.

Would help a lot to be able to enchant the taming necklace.

 

They cant let Tamers have an Enchanted Taming Necklace, after all according to Chris, its a seriously OP profession <sarcasm off>.

As for magically summoned Pets they have had a buff, with their level increasing as your adventurer Level and Skill level increases. Formula is:(skillLevel) + ((adventurerLevel/2)/4).
This means their HP and DPS goes up as you train the skill. For example my Ice ellie already has almost the same amount of hit points as my Obi Wolf (337 compared to 357), and my Summon Ice Ellie skill is only @ 20 (so looks like a great investment for my 600 SP in taming!). The Focus drain on these buffed magic pets still pretty low though - my summon skill in Water Elle is 55 and my focus drain is still just under 80 compared to the 216 focus drain of my Obi Wolf.

The whole Aggro issue was mainly due to Mages using Magically Summoned Pets to farm high level mages without risk in the Rise(the fire ellie is invunerable to fire so the Mages could'nt damage them) ....so whats the answer? Remove 100% Resistances on Magically summoned Pets? maybe change the spawn slightly, adding an occasional Melee Mob? or perhaps remove magic pets holding aggro and make a taming skill (Combat Level skill maybe) increase the aggro a tamed pet is able to hold therefore making the profession a little bit more viable???

No, instead its not to let any type of Pet hold aggro no matter what, that way we can nerf Taming yet again as well as stop the farming - 2 birds with one stone and suckit tamers

 

I agree with all points.
Tamed pets got the **** end of the stick.

That all being said.. stop being so sensitive over hin jokingly saying *suck it tamers!* .. it makes the mechanic being weak argument sound like you cant take playful banter.

Moving on...

Where he got the idea taming was OP is beyond me. Maybe dps vs risk? Personally whistle decay should be greater.. but they should be masterworkable. I agree completly.

I would love too see a vid of them running tamed pets and explain how they think this is a fair balance.

So once agian, pets sit back never to be used.
Still cant wrap my head around the aggro issue.
The total focuse cost i can even live with.. but not the regen hit aswell. They simply arnt worth it. And i realllly tried to force myself to try and see them as.

@Chris fix the aggro damnit! Lol.

 

For me it's not that he said 'Suck it Tamers!' (TBH I Didn't even know it was an actual quote). It's that a lot of his actions and his attitude to the profession seems to be suckit Tamers.

One perfect example of this is the heal creature skill. You could originally use it as a self heal,it wasnt overpowered (a bit less powerful
than healing touch without the bonuses) plus it didn't get any buffs from attunement etc. Still it HAD to be nerfed to pets only..... Heaven forbid Tamers get their own little healing spell which meant they didn't need a magic
Skill to be a viable profession...and it's not like all the other Magic healing spells can still heal pets is it?!? ......oh wait

Another was during the initial nerf. I remember a post when Tamers were complaining the level of pets was broken. He spent a whole day denying it and saying it was just Tamers 'misunderstanding' how it worked -even though Tamers had tested it and fed back stats and info...it seemed the attitude he was giving then seemed to be was that Tamers were just moaning and just didn't get it (in other words Suckit Tamers)...he even posted apic with a ferocious Red spider using his full god mode tamer char stating - Look it does work...you Tamers just don't understand!

Eventually after a lot of complaining he looked at the code and it WAS wrong, but even in his post begrudgingly admitting he had made a mistake - his attitude still seemed from my point of view to be suckit.

For the more cynical among us, you might even think the only reason he slightly buffed Taming now was due to the fact Magic Summons were being buffed in this release and Tamers pets were already woefully inadequate in comparison.

From his actions (including the most recent release and his blog) it would seem to me that Chris has very little affection for the Taming profession, and would be quite happy if everyone quit it to be Fire/Death mages that tank Dragons. After all they are'nt overpowered

 

ive tried killing myself, and re-logging, no luck changing necklace

Edit: Just had to quit and re-launch SotA, and all was well.

 

Moooore taming love!!! Pleeease

 

2x hes acknowledged this.
Big fan, appreciate him looking at the feedback and actually responding!

Gotta say, with him doing his *blog* thing, it sure seems like feedback is getting to where it needs to go a lot quicker. (and more attention to forums)

Thanx Chris.