Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Virtue Path independant of Weapon Choice

Discussion in 'Release 22 Feedback' started by Waxillium, Sep 29, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Fikule

    Fikule Avatar

    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottingham
    So, to clarify, I could pick truth and become a hammer-wielding sun warrior in heavy armour without any notable lack of progression compared to someone who chose truth and became a mage?

    My other worry is that since players will be more familiar with what skill loadouts offer rather than the aesthetics of the virtue, they would be more encouraged to pick decisions based on their starting skills than what they might otherwise associate with as "their" virtue.

    Although from the remark in your last post, I get the impression that your virtue path is not chosen in the tutorial.
     
  2. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    With all due respect Lum I also think this makes no sense... and even if it did, no anti-virtue ? You need to take the pulse of your playerbase... I understand its convenient because its a very huge endeavor to create multiple storylines... but please... its the same thing with trust, you need to earn it you don't arbitrarly take one.
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm already doing that. I was put on the path of courage first, so I deleted my character, went back and just typed in Truth 3 or 4 times.

    Which is more than a little ironic. ;)
     
  4. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    I'm not sure if I understand but no, there is no explicit "anti-virtue" path, there are decisions down each path which are made based on your actions.
     
  5. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    But Richard said our path in the virtue would be an adventure in itself, that we would never know when the oracle was spying on our actions (probably all the time)... how can we really be imersed in the story if every turn I'm asking myself : since I'm on the path of love this is how I follow the pre-made path ?

    I'm not acting out myself I'm acting out how the game was programmed... to admittedly get some virtue bonuses at the end line ?
     
  6. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    It's confusing because we never know where the single player mode begins and where the multiplayer ends... we know for example picking up a weapon in the blacksmith shop is against karma, but is it really against virtue if you give it to someone that really needs it to defend his life ?

    This is the kind of questioning I expected... I'm sorry if my expectations are too high but it should really be more intricate, in ultima single player only this worked because it gave replay value to the game since you could take different paths. Karma, Virtue and Intention should be three distinct concepts that go hand in hand to create the end result which is the path...

    You guys say go off the beaten path, and this is exactly the opposite.
     
  7. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Bavaria
    From my experience, this is quite possible. At a beginning level, used skills are levelled up extremely quickly. All you need is the 100g to unlock the desired skill tree. The only downside is that you end up with glyphs in skills that you aren't using (the ones you started out with) and they are mere clutter in the deck building interface.
     
  8. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    There is no such thing as a "virtue bonus".

    One of the main reasons we don't display when the Oracle observes a virtuous/not virtuous action is because we specifically do not want people to powergame that element of the story. So, no, we do not want you to act based on how the game was programmed.
     
  9. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Thanks alot for taking the time to clarify I really appreciate :)

    Then would it be possible to not assign me a path and a weapon style ? Maybe that avatar is too disillusioned and knows giving a coin to a beggar makes NO difference when you can teach him to cultivate his own veggies ? Maybe he even chooses to walk off the beaten path and only play multiplayer, or roleplay... ?

    Those things should be subtle, Avatars who are not paying attention should totally be able to "miss the point" and not get any virtue assigned.

    Also the point at which I am confused is : you say this is so a peculiar storyline gets assigned to the avatar, but in multiplayer will this have any impact ? Will shopkeepers make deals for virtuous players or any such thing ?

    You see how this makes it hard to "fit in" ? If I roleplay in multiplayer and I'm following a different storyline in single player, how will they seamlessly blend together ?
     
  10. Fikule

    Fikule Avatar

    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottingham
  11. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    You aren't going to make much of an impression on the Oracle if all you do is toss a coin at a beggar. Lord British and I have been brainstorming how you DO make an impression and this thread has been a huge help.

    Eventually, there will be an impact. Right now there isn't because players would report it as a bug (this actually happened, we had some NPCs in Owl's Head who reacted based on virtue)

    As far as our job as storytellers is concerned, it's the same game, you just get distracted by other players every so often. We don't have seperate stories for single/multi-player; we do plan on implementing specific features for single-player mode (detailed here) but the game's plot is the same.
     
  12. Waxillium

    Waxillium Avatar

    Messages:
    3,311
    Likes Received:
    9,043
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rift's End
    I like this. I want to choose a virtue path and be taken on a journey/storey.

    From a player perspective however, after being stuck with blade skills for 10 or so releases I'll unfortunatley choose my virtue based on weapon.

    4 starter skills at 10-20 give you 8 or 10 cards of the weapon style in your deck right away. Characters are becoming delineated and playable as different classes. If you end up with the wrong skill set you are quite a bit behind with regards to being able to tackle the easiest foe.

    Why then restrict choice and force me down a virtue path I don't belong in just so I have a starting deck I want to use?

    I'm looking forward to a rich story but it seems unfortunate that my choices on my first pass through the intro ironically made me of the blade class when all I want to do is shoot a bow.
     
    Chatele and Ahuaeynjgkxs like this.
  13. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Unfortunately we have to do it that way because each starter scene will have a tutorial that is based on your starting skills. (This isn't currently implemented which makes life very hard on mages... I've been working on fixing this up this week)
     
  14. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Thanks this does address some of my concerns, but as storytellers I still don't understand how people in multiplayer mode will be able to "adapt" their roleplay to the storyline.

    For example the post you refered says in offline mode instances won't respawn, that means they will respawn in multiplayer mode ?

    I really think the wording and approach is professional but it isn't clear if multiplayer will get live story elements or if its just there for trading and social basically ?

    I'd just like to know how much time I will invest in developping my avatar and not following the storytelling, is that syntaxed propely ? excuse my rusty english...
     
  15. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    From the starting scene (first iteration) to a number of NPC conversations, I'm still struggling to see how anyone could determine someone's virtue by what they do or don't do in this game - but I'm trying to be open minded.

    It's certainly going to be a challenge. But I'm not sure it's worth doing if it can't be done well. That's not a commentary on the game, it's more a commentary on life and a philosophical stance. I looked up "Ethical Hedonism" today, because I've heard Richard mention it several times. I can't help but think that "virtue" is all in the eyes of the beholder, just as "ethical" may be a word placed in front of "hedonism" to deflect preconceived notions about "hedonism". I certainly don't think this game is going to change that. Which is why I could really care less what the Oracle thinks of my virtue, or anything else for that matter.

    I don't disregard the idea that the Oracle may have very compelling ways to make me care. I just doubt it will be by saying "you've been a bad boy".

    Quite a challenge indeed.
     
    Ahuaeynjgkxs likes this.
  16. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    But Lum... I understand we wish for a large amount of new players chiming in at release... but most players here won't want a tutorial we'll know the game on the tip of our fingers, and I'm not saying this pejoratively in no way it does prevent me from enjoying a game.
     
  17. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Without any pretention I just don't see why this is worked on in pre-alpha when most real testers are more asking for a command to instantly set and try out all the different skills and decks to help with balancing but also choosing your prefered gameplay style.
     
  18. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Multiplayer gets the same story as Single-player, Single-player gets additional features (such as save games). You can play through the entire plot in multiplayer online mode if you choose (though there will be instances that restrict who can enter a scene with you).
     
  19. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Because we have many people working on different things.
     
  20. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    3,988
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    The Drowned Mountains
    @Lum ...just let me know which answer gets me a bow from the bloody start....*glares at @Chris*


    :p
     
    Chatele likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.