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We can't dumb down the game any more than this! YAY

Discussion in 'Release 43 Feedback Forum' started by Poor game design, Jun 29, 2017.

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  1. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    We've reached our maximum limit. We've just dumbed down the game to a level that didn't seem possible before.

    Let's recap:
    • We had short buffs and so we (the people) cried about it in a survey that Chris had sent out to get feedback. One of the number one complaints was that the buffs were too short. So Chris made them longer! Which is great, it makes sense, and virtually everyone was happy with that move.
    • However, as the buffs increased in length, that meant that the game had fundamentally changed. That what used to require players to pay attention very frequently, required far less attention. Thus the challenge of the game went way down. (if you're not following, it means that when your buffs were removed over time, that often would lead to more deaths)
    • This also meant that players could 5 stack buffs for super long times (hours in some cases) and not have to worry about them at all!
    • Some buffs (like douse) were supposed to be counters to fire magic, but now lasted as much as 45 minutes! That's not a counter, it's an active shield. Just ask any fire mage.
    • So Chris rightly thought about making balancing changes to the buffs so players would have to choose between the buffs and not have all of them. But that's when the same players that wanted the shorter buffs to be longer said that wasn't fair. That the buffs couldn't have negatives because that would impact their ability to farm and gain XP. Longer buffs without negatives that created choices to make would decrease the XP production for high level players and therefore that couldn't happen.
    • So we got very watered down negatives and there's virtually no penalty for using all the buffs, 5 stacking them, and farming XP even more efficiently than we could before the buffs had their length increased.

    It's pure madness. It dumbs down this game to a point where players are using decks that only have buffs, 5 stacking all of them, and then switching decks so that the buffs are not even in the deck they're using! And before someone says "yeah well what's wrong with that?" I will tell you, it's a completely pointless activity since there's no downside or choice that would tempt someone NOT to do that. So the real question is, why do we even have buffs at all if the only two choices to make are to be optimal and 5 stack everything or be slightly lazy and not 5 stack everything? What point does this system have other than to provide min/maxers with a way to min/max?

    It's stupid, and it should be fixed.
     
  2. Yakamo LLTS

    Yakamo LLTS Avatar

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    Do you still think Douse lasts 45 minutes?
     
  3. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Stacking for buffs is stupid anyway. They are designed to be used out of combat now. Just prevent them from stacking.

    There were other ways that buffs could have been adjusted to not allow them to be overpowered. Perhaps they still will. The current implementation is lackluster.
     
  4. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    My suggestion is that whenever you switch decks all buffs go bye bye... Problem solved.
     
  5. Yakamo LLTS

    Yakamo LLTS Avatar

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    Dont get sucked into his miss info until he changes it.

    Douse is a counter, it lasts 6 munites 40 seconds 5 stacked. Its like 3 mintus or something for 1 stack.

    Douse is not useful to stack nemore. Plus every time fire is applied to you, you need to cast douse to remove damage over time. That is the counter part
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    I think douse lasts 6 minutes and 40 seconds. That's an endless amount of time in a fight. If you know you're going to be fighting someone and stack up prior, you should have to have all those cards in your deck, not switch and remove them.
     
  7. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    I have to agree in some ways. I liked that we had to remember to use counters to for example to counter lava or someones fire. I didn't mind that it lasted a short while to get through some fire or lava but to take away the 'need' to play your character correctly and to the best you can has not imo been fixed with this. One thing I think that is confusing the issue is that counters are sometimes buffs. Instead of having counters and buffs we have counters considered buffs. lol oh maybe I should drink more coffee. Living on the edge is some of the fun of a game.

    I've played bdo and really altho the combat is flashy I feel we have an opportunity in our combat here to better see what is going on and to plan for it. That will give us an edge where flashy combat is key mashing to some degree.
     
  8. Albus

    Albus Avatar

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    Since last release, I did find that buffs became more obviously something "everyone must use unless stupid" more or less. The leaned that way already really, but laziness could overcome use of them sometimes in past :p
     
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  9. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    i fully agree - and while swapping decks is fast now - don't know what changed the function itself or that my skill makes them fast switching - it's very easy to have 2 decks, and use as many as short buffs like stances or armor skills for 1-2 minutes, at least at my mid levels, and maybe even longer in high levels.

    changed my combat significantly and my decks slightly.

    The longer durations of Stat Buffs and the Celestial Blessing were welcome to me, i once tried if it is worth stacking them,
    but i just saw a time increase and no better effect - please correct me if i am wrong!!!

    Wasn't worth it creating an extra deck and stack them all, because they last around 15-20 minutes for me - it wasn't even worth to me to skill them further - still thinking that only the time increases, but not the effect - don't nail me down, i am not ingame atm - but itsn't it adds x% to a Stat?

    Douse is no more an active counter - thats bad somehow

    I actually used 2 decks with all possible buffs i have some are in Deck 1 some are in the Alternative Deck, i can switch them very fast and the diffference between these decks are, the one is multitarget with AoE spells and the other is Single Target, worls very well and i have different sets of these combination against undead, against this or that...

    I like the idea of having only one Stat Buff possible active - like you can have only one stance active - ok not the whole truth - you can combine spellbinder with def stance, but thats maybe ok (i didnt use it for a long time, but there was a scene where this worked well for some time, later i did easier with the mobs there and used other tactics)

    I agree @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos changes like this make the game easier and seem not be well thought out. Sorry Devs - please overwork!!!
     
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  10. Blade Savage

    Blade Savage Avatar

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    To prevent stacking buffs here are some options:

    1) Make buffs 1/1 in deck.
    or
    2) Make them only usable on the utility bar
    and
    3) The duration maxes out at 10 mins (like potions), but the effect power changes still scales.

    I don't think the problems is with the buffs and how many you can have... I think it's with the implementation.

    1-40 duration increases
    41-80 duration and effect power increases
    81-100 duration maxed at 10min and effect power increase
    101-140 1 new effect
    141-180 1 new effect for total of 3
    181-200 1 new effect for total of 4

    The reason I wouldn't mine seeing the additional effects beyond 100 is that you would also get the double EXP death penalty.
     
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  11. Xkhan

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    I love the idea of buffs - and I do think there should be a 'cost' to them. A negative cost does nothing but annoy everyone (I assume) and goes right into the 'no fun' category.

    My idea
    Buffs should not be stackable -> I could almost go with the change deck/buffs gone but bar too limited imo
    Buffs should cost reagants -> this is where you decide you want the buff all the time or just for good fights.
    Buffs should not be able to used until 'x' attunement -> this gives us all a reason to want to be a master.
     
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  12. majoria70

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    Yes i thought the negatives to a buff was a strange decision. Why oh why must we have strange? A buff duration was the negative imo.
     
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  13. HogwinHD

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    so sick and tired of hearing the same old Stuff, if a person wants to use all 3 stat buffs why shouldnt they? or better yet, why shouldnt they be able to? it doesnt in anyway affect the gameplay for anyone else other than the person using them, i agree on a penalty on using them yes, but not limiting it to only one active at a time thats just madness, they already made that change with the shield spells and you saw how people reacted to that, im telling you right now, you keep suggesting changes like this that will be the death of the game, people get used to a way of playing.. one person or a few dont like it, they complain and bang .. it gets changed, and its funny how it always seems to be the people who have a lot of money invested that get listened to rather than the people who actually play the game and have a lot of time in Fighting, adventuring etc and use all spelklls etc. Its utter madness ... Take heed Devs, you keep making changes like this, you will kill the game.
     
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  14. kaeshiva

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    Yeah I didn't really see the need to add negatives to the buffs at all. I mean, you earned the xp for them, you levelled them up, if you wanna cast them all. ...why is it a problem? Why do we need penalties AT ALL for just using the skills that we've levelled up? Seems a bit stupid and I can't think of any lore related, reality related, or balance related reason to knock off 20 health when I cast an int buff?
     
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  15. Diab Blackbow

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    I am glad they increased the duration of the buffs and the "challenge of the game went way down". Maybe instead of babysitting buffs which is more of a chore then a challenge, they can add real challenges to combat in this game.
     
  16. Trihugger

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    I don't really know anyone that uses douse to get rid of the DoT left behind by fire damage. Compared to the added resistance you get for 5 stacking it, it's definitely worth the D0T ticking away for zero'ish damage slowly than being subjected to much larger spike hits. Much larger chance of death from big hits than small continuous ones.

    In reality all we've done is make one more annoying buff that we're constantly recasting if the time limit has dropped so much.
     
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  17. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    No, because it doesnt need to be in a deck. You can place it on the non-combat hotbar. Which is where it should be.

    I don't have a problem with buffs costing max focus; its like a continuous cost to keep it up. This is much, much better than attunement penalty.

    This was considered, and abandoned, because the "cost" is nothing to high-level players but very hard on low-level players. Why penalize those who actually need it the most?

    I'd be fine with them putting the same limit as devotionals and food; 2 buffs (long-term stat or saves) stick. You want a different one, dismiss one you already have.
     
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  18. Drocis the Devious

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    You can't stack them if they're on the non-combat bar though.
     
  19. Trihugger

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    Re-reading the OP again... this really seems like it has less to do with buffs than general PvP balance. There's no way you can have a reasonably complex game system and equally apply it to PvE and PvP. They need to take a PvP pass impose limits both on offense and defense to rectify what BDF is describing as a "one buff counter."
     
  20. Xkhan

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    I guess it is how you see the buffs. I would prefer buffs to not be available to newer people, and they can only 'get' it when certain achievement is reached (90 in attunement for example).... I would argue that is exactly when buffs are needed....and the cost of reagents would be negligible for the people at that level. If you (Jayson) want buffs for lower people then I agree with you.
     
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