We can't dumb down the game any more than this! YAY

The Other Great Possibility Beyond the Immediate;
There's more powerful monsters coming that even with high skills, will need all those buffs to overcome.
The monster power we see isn't the ceiling of where our game's challenges are heading to ...


Cthulhu is a creature who loves fisherman and we're not there yet ...

But I feel there's even more coming by land which will take such power of the long buff to handle. With each easing of a current game, always comes more dangerous challenges ahead.
When a soldier becomes able to handle more danger, the numbers of them needed for the same tasks given change, yet never increase the need for more soldiers.
Power grows and is never stagnate, on one side or the other, and thus is our game developing.
The power in the here and now mean nothing to the present, yet everything to the future.
Calm down and know there's always something more powerful coming our way.
When larger things are coming, it always seems more easy in the present.
Some may choose to ignore the facts, but bigger things are coming.
~Time Lord~

 

This is one of those conversations (buffs in general) that didn't get better with player input.

 

This topic has been hashed out enough already.

I completely disagree, I absolutely love the way they changed it (not R34, but duration in general a few back) and need to go even father. Its a good step in the right direction.

I still would like to see less overall buffs in number, would be happier with less that cover the same spread.

I also think Chris actually listened to the vast majority of the user base in extending buff duration's and its a job well done to him.

I still just dont get why they added negatives to buffs. I think that is again just bubble gum patching on a greater system issue.

 

@Baron Drocis Fondorlatos I could not agree more with your assessment. Buffs should either be only on the non-combat bar or in the deck being played. Should not be allowed to cast buffs with one deck and then switch to another deck to play. And yes, there should be a penalty for casting a buff and they should not be stackable.

 

Would prefer if the (int,dex,str) buffs was castable out of combat only and not stacking.

 

Why not just have buffs give a set timer and be done with it. One time for combat buffs and one for non. Have it where stacking them does not increase the timer. Due to this card deck mechanic and the ability to stack skills, what would you have them do?
Right now places like The Fall can make them absurd but really... people buff all the time anyways, even before the extended timers... Now we just don't have to worry about it as much. I don't use a buff deck because it is annoying to have to do, but that is just me. Min/max'rs will always do whatever it takes for a little bit more. You're not really going to stop that. I only know a few people I play with that use a buff deck. If others want to do that, fine, let them. Does not hurt me in the slightest.

Not sure why there is such a need by people in this game to penalize everyone for everything. I have never seen a game where you are penalized for healing and have devs looking for ways to penalize you for using heals and buffs. I believe this is the wrong direction for the game but such is not my call. I've seen some mechanics like this in other games where devs eventually do a 180 on their decisions as it usually is unpopular with the majority of players.

I feel for those that play dedicated healers... it's bad enough all you do is generally heal others, let alone get penalized for it (buffs/dmg). Would be nice to see some implementation of dmg/heals for heal specs instead of the current vision. Maybe down the road when there are more mobs, an improved upon system of battle mechanics, then this could be a possibility. The game has come a long way since the beginning and I hope a lot more is to come and this is just one of those minor bumps we just have to deal with for a while til something better comes along.

 

I loved the buff duration in the last patch, it made the tedious more manageable, it didnt really change much besides now I dont drop combat as much to buff up. Many of us worked these skills up as its obvious the benefit to them, the fact people are against them seems ludicrous to me. Now I will temper that by saying I dont think "douse" is a buff and that could use a decrease in duration but the rest of them is just silly to make this change.

The worse part of it is this change modifies the game significantly more than any of the other changes. There are buffs in the Earth tree that have no negatives to them, so those with points in that tree will benefit more than others. Toss in the fact that increasing DEX lowers DMG Resist is just downright perplexing... My spear using tank doesnt much like that change, nor does my lightning spec. But anything STR based is laughing with a minor hit to focus. Im even fine with the focus and HP hit from the other buffs but the DEX one needs to be changed ASAP.

 

Introducing a penalty is a step in the right direction. The problem with long lasting buffs with no penalty is that they become must haves, just a boring chore that doesn't separate characters.

At that point you might as well just raise everyones stats by that much permanently and be done with it.

I think the idea to remove all buffs when switching deck is worth thinking about.

 

I both appreciate and respect both sides, but I do believe that a game that caters to the progress obsessed, change obverse, or fearful is destined to die a sad death in the WoW graveyard as they already own that market.

Case in point, DEC computers, who decided to ignore market realities and listen solely to their customers. They made some of the best high end computers of their time, yet they were the first to go belly up. Me too marketing has never won.

I am talking to myself more than anyone else. I am also all those things, but I am trying to see beyond it objectively for the betterment of the game and my ultimate gaming pleasure.

 

You consider a reduction in Focus in the exact same amount of an increase in Strength watered down?

 

I don't think focusing on penalties is a step in the right direction. Just reduce the duration if it is too much time. People will eventually work on builds for buffs as that is how a "whatever build you want" system works. You cannot penalize players for choosing such in a "build it your way" system. Otherwise we would simply have classes, paragons, sub-specialties etc... which im not entirely against even with this current setup. But there will always be someone who thinks that anything favorable is too much and due to their sadist mentality and the guilty conscious they must feel because of any favorable actions, they believe they should suffer in some form because of it... like having someone show up at their house, slap them around, bend them over, and kick them in the pants because they healed themselves.

I don't believe you will ever please everyone. There are already tried & true game mechanics out there. You have to balance enjoyment vs tediousness vs difficulty vs time invested by players into skills. If its not enjoyable, people will stop doing/playing it. If it's not worth it, people will stop doing it as well. Then what would be the point in having it at all?

 

Yes, very much so.

If you get 20 strength points, I can't imagine how that could be considered on par with 20 focus points.

Let's put this into perspective, how many max focus points do you lose when you summon an elemental? It's like 200 to 300+ depending on how much you trained, and that's not doing the same damage that 20 strength points would do. 20 strength points will give you all kinds of power and scale your character immensely in comparison to a summoned elemental. So no, I wouldn't dare say that would be a good balance.

 

Um, did you mean to say lose ?

 

Yep

Edited.

 

It is not win or lose. It is challenge. With challenge comes a meaningful journey, with a meaningful journey, comes satisfaction and a sense of self achievement. With self achievement comes personal growth. With self achievement comes both pride and true satisfaction. With an easy pass, comes boredom for no matter how you try to justify it, it was not worth doing.

It is success in the most obtuse circumstances that lies in the golden pot at the end of the rainbow.

 

I don't see why we need them stackable along with the duration increase. But don't throw tomatoes at me. *ducks* If a buff were decent in the first place it would be valuable.

 

I love you. Use periods.

 

I see your point, maybe these kind of penalties are not the best way.

But what I'm saying is that when everyone have something (buffs for every stat with no drawback) it is the same as no one having it. It's not "build it your way", it's "build it this way or be stupid".

If some people feel the game gets boring without these extra stats, then maybe there is a balancing/difficulty level problem, which is a separate issue imo.

Edit: I play a heavy armor warrior and I actually only used strength of earth for a long time. Then I realised that raising it one point took as much exp as raising dex/int buffs to 50 and that I was shooting myself in the foot. So I had to get them. But it felt wrong since it has nothing to do with planning a good build.

 

Personally, why would I care if anyone else cared how I use my LIMITED 10 slots. 10 slots. 10...slots. Yes, you technically get 20, but at the cost of it being a pain in the rear to keep switching back and forth to reapply. I fall in the lazy camp.

You originally said 45 min. for some buffs, and I guess you were just being hyperbolic. Which is cool. So it's at least 5 for me. I have them at 80.

My deck is 3 combat spells (2 locked), 2 buffs I would cast together (locked). I use 1 dynamic with 2 Light Armor buffs I have to reapply often. Another dynamic slot with 2 debuffs I have to reapply often. I then have Blink locked and Tap Soul locked in 2 other slots. Chaotic Feedback is my last slot (locked).

I already pay a penalty for re-applying buffs, no?

I re-apply 3 buffs every once in a while - they are in my utility slot.

I must be playing the game wrong.

*Evard Dirae wouldn't doubt that.*

I use my alternate to switch up my fighting style, not for buffs.

*EDIT* Upon further reflection, this weakens the stronger, higher level, players. They are losing something to have just 3 buffs up. And they are choosing for themselves to suffer that or just pick less buffs.

 

After they increased the time, stacking no longer affected how long the buff lasted (yes, I tried this).

I just tried stacking with Air's Embrace, Celestial Blessing, Enlightenment and Strength of Earth. The benefit for stacking was a minimal increase in the buff effect, no increase in the duration and a (proportional to the buff) increase in the negative effect.