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Weapons and Magic

Discussion in 'Release 8 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Jul 27, 2014.

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  1. Mercyful Fate

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    As long as you are unable to simultaneously cast a spell and swing your sword I don't see the problem.
     
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  2. Owain

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    Probably true, in that a pure warrior or a pure mage can go deeper into a skill tree to more powerful attacks than a hybrid who for the same skill points can only shallowly traverse two or more skill trees.
     
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  3. Akrondar

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    I really dont like the idea of swap an entire deck on combat. But that is subject of another thread i guess.
     
  4. Mercyful Fate

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    Agreed.
     
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  5. Owain

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    I think Chris has already said this will be available for R9 - results in a 50% focus penalty, I think.
     
  6. Drocis the Devious

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    Semantics. Magic requires complex hand and body movements. Ya know, all that stuff that's happening during the animations where you're casting spells?

    That's why free hands should be much better than hands loaded down with weapons, armor, and shields.
     
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  7. Akrondar

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    Yeah and in matter of seconds you will be fighting an entirely different oponent (even with different body equipment). But we dont have the details yet, so lets be patient ^_^.
     
  8. Owain

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    I don't think it would happen in a matter of seconds. With respect to body equipment, if swapping that, you should be as vulnerable as a snail out its shell for an extended period of time.
     
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  9. Mercyful Fate

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    I personally find the concept of swapping armor in the midst of combat ridiculous.
     
  10. Drocis the Devious

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    Agreed.
     
  11. Vendetta Beretta

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    I've thought about the Mage Staff (or staves, or however you pronounce it), I think they should fall under bludgeons in this game rather than my previous answer as a polarm.

    REASON FOR MY SWITCH IN OPINION:

    A pure mage is going to use the staff for casting spells, and for self defense, but not for major offensive type defense. The real attack potential of a mage is his or her magic. So what is the best use of a staff in the hands of a person who wants to keep casting spells, and not landing a bunch of strikes. I would say it would be to use the staff to keep somebody at bay and not have him all up in your face all the time.

    Polarms do the following...
    • Push: Attack that also has chance to push target back
    • Block: Increases defense values for next hit on caster
    • Disarm: Attack that has chance to unequip target's weapon
    • Puncture: Attack that tends to ignore Armor (why would a staff do this?)
    • Spinning Attack: Spinning attack that hits multiple targets around caster
    • Leg Sweep: Attack that has chance to knockdown
    • Skewer: Attack that roots the target
    Those aren't bad for a staff, but it isn't quite as good as the bludgeons below:

    • Crushing Blow: Stunning Attack
    • Knockback: Stunning Attack that also has chance to knockback
    • Knockdown: Stunning Attack that also has chance to knockdown
    • Break Weapon: Attack that has chance to damage targets equipped weapon(s)
    • Break Armor: Attack that has chance to damage targets equipped armor pieces
    • Berserk: Caster gets damage increase but accuracy decrease for X seconds
    • Ground Pound: Caster strikes the ground sending out ripples of force that damage all enemies within radius around caster
    A staff is a blunt weapon I don't care that it is long like a polarm, or even if it is wielded similarly to a polarm. What counts is what kind of strikes will you land. The thrust could very well be a push attack, but crushing blow seems to be more like it since the mage really wants to just stop the oponent (stun him a bit) to either get a way or cast an offensive spell.

    Knockback also falls inline with the crushing blow and the strategy of a mage's offense. So does knock down. Knockdown would be a wirling strike to the legs of an opponant as opposed to the Polearm's spinning attack which would be a higher attack using a bladed tip to attack all opponents.

    Also I think the pure mage would sacrifice fewer skill points in a weapon skill this way. They might only pick up the first three combat skills, crushing blow, knockback, and knockdown, and pick up the innate skill "stunner" to increase stun effects.

    **I'm sure some will argue that this is not a pure mage, but I disagree. A pure mage focuses on spells to do damage. What I described above was not using the staff to kill his opponant, but to stop them in their tracks for a moment.

    Using the staff to keep somebody off ballance or to trip somebody seems reasonable. The mage wouldn't have to use skill points for the inate skills crusher and breaker. So the mage would likely not do a lot of damage with his strikes, and it will leave skill points for other things.

    ** Also a mage that chooses to use a wand or be empty handed, could save even more skill points and focus only on mage skills. KEEP IN MIND I'm not actually referring to a hybrid here. A hybrid would focus on a weapon skill and magic skills to deal damage either way. This is only to make the staff act like something more than just a big poll a mage carries, unless the mage chooses to invest in all the rest of the bludgeon skills.
     
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  12. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Pole-arms are not defined by damage type. It doesn't matter if it's a staff, halberd or a spear.. they're all pole-arms.

    That being said.. pole-arm skill is far from perfect.
     
  13. Owain

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    But is a quarter-staff a pole arm? Once a staff (singular) or staves (plural) are out of charges, they are most similar to a quarterstaff, which I consider to be a bludgeon weapon.
     
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  14. Bowen Bloodgood

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    No one is saying it doesn't do 'blunt' damage.. but again, pole arms are not defined by their damage type. They are all wielded in more or less the same way and the weapon skills are that.. skills. If you wanted to break them up by damage then halberds would be slash weapons, spears would be pierce etc.

    The difference between a staff and any other pole arm is that a staff doesn't normally have anything at the end. Otherwise they're more or less the same thing.

    Take a look at a short glaive. (Those are fun). Technically it's a pole arm due to the length of the shaft but it's basically a sword on a stick. Or a standard glaive.. more or less the same but with a more standard (longer) length shaft. Primary damage just like a sword.. but it's a pole arm.

    Halberd. Damage like an axe. Pole arm.
     
  15. Owain

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    Wouldn't a sword on a stick be a spear?
     
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Nope.. spear head and blade.. different style, different length, different construction etc. Though both can be used for basic thrusting. The spear head would have better penetration.. but poor slash potential. Glaive is more the opposite.
     
  17. Vendetta Beretta

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    Philipino Stick fighting is also training with the bolo knife. Both are used the same way, but the strikes with the stick are aimed at joints and bony spots. The strikes with the blade are in soft tissue areas. The traing for the knife and the sticks are the same. In essences the stick is the bladeless knife. They use the same technique but they are not the same.

    Staff, and the polarm may use all the same footwork, and strikes, (just like the sticks and knives), but the bladed one is meant to attack differently than the blunt one.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Skill is not limited to targets.. and also the construction is very different between the knife and the stick. All pole-arms have a shaft of a certain minimum length. It's what makes them pole-arms not the kind of damage they do or the targets they're intended for. The basic skill and usage is more or less the same.
     
  19. Vendetta Beretta

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    That's fine. I have a good compromise and I think the logic is sound. You can classify it as a polarm, but let it do the damage of a bludgeon in this game.

    Call it what you like, but it works like a bludgeon.
     
  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    combat skills are just not well suited for the wide variety of differences from one weapon to the next. . Axes for example would deserve their own category and weapons with the ability to hook on to things would have their own sub skill etc.

    Since the skill sets are so broad you just have to put the weapons into the skill that is best suited for it. . There is no special consideration for subtle.. or not so subtle differences (ie such as a staff lacking a head)
     
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