Weapons and Magic

I think we should not take staffs like a traditional weapon, because it seems that they have to be used like a long version of wands.

"A wand (also: magic wand) is a thin, straight, hand-held stick or rod made of wood, stone, ivory, or metals like gold or silver. Generally, in modern language, wands are ceremonial and/or have associations with magic but there have been other uses, all stemming from the original meaning as a synonym of rod and virge, both of which had a similar development. A stick giving length and leverage is perhaps the earliest and simplest of tools. Long versions of the magic wand are usually styled in forms of staves or scepters, often with designs or an orb of a gemstone forged on the top." source

"Mystical, occult, and religious usage (of wands): In Pharaonic Egypt, toilette articles, weapons against possible enemies, amulets against serpents, were also left in the tomb, together with magic texts and a magic wand which enabled the ba (soul) to use them. In classical Greco-Roman mythology, the god Hermes/Mercury has a special wand called a caduceus. Six to eight-foot-long staves with metal tips adorning them are carried traditionally in Freemasonry during rituals of the Craft. Ceremonial uses may have several wands for different purposes, such as the Fire Wand and the Lotus Wand in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. In Zoroastrianism, there is a similar ritual implement called a barsom. In Wicca and Ceremonial magic, practitioners use several magical tools including wands for the channeling of energy—they serve a similar purpose to the athame although the two have their distinct uses. While an athame is generally used to command, a wand is seen as more gentle and is used to invite or encourage. Though traditionally made of wood, they can also consist of metal or crystal. Practitioners usually prune a branch from an Oak, Hazel, or other tree, or may even buy wood from a hardware store, and then carve it and add decorations to personalize it; however, one can also purchase ready-made wands. In Wicca the wand usually represents the element air, or sometimes fire, although contemporary wand makers also create wands for the elements of earth and water as well. The wand is most often used by modern Pagans, witches, Shamans and others in rituals, healing and spell casting. There is some scholarly opinion that the magic wand may have its roots as a symbol of the phallus. It may also have originated as the drumming stick of a shaman, especially in Central Asia and Siberia, as when using it to bang on his drum or point, to perform religious, healing, and magical ceremonies." source

My take would be to use canalization items for magic, so the spell get performed on the most powerful way or gets special properties that could only be acquired using them. Wands, Staffs, Orbs, and my favorite: Grimoire or spellbooks. All of these should be labeled as hand equipment with options of two hands ("pure mages") and one hand (to allow hybrid classes, battle mage for example).

And to not be so arid xD:

 

If your first context for magic was watching early runs of Bewitched, you know that Sam wiggled her nose and occasionally blinked. That's all it took. Couldn't I hold a sword and do that?

 

I'm cool with all of that. If wands helped out with focus, can be charged, creates more spell stability, or does something else to enhance the spell casting experience then I'm all for it. As a weapon they probably could be more delicate.

There is still the possibility that through enchantment, or by sturdy design staffs might be less fragile. In such a case then I agree with Vendetta the Staff needs to be treated as a bludgeon for the sake of this game, and mages should have the potential to use it to stun our opponents.

 

If staffs are gonna be treated like bludgeon weapons then they should not be eligible to be magician artifacts.

Said that i am all for "non combat" hand equipment (1H/2H) that enhances you power as a caster.

If the problem of actual wizzards are crowd control and scape mechanisms, there are a lot of ways to enhance them without creating something like a ninja wizzard XD.

 

Why not? Even if they don't do a lot of damage they are still in the shape of staffs. Even the greatest of wizards would use whatever is in hand if they are at close range regardless how little damage it does.

They should still be wizard tools, because the wizard that is using them are not using them to do damage, they will be using magic to do damage. The attack that they do would be meaningless if it was just an auto attack, but if a mage uses some skill to learn how to trip a person with it or do a quick stunning poke to the stomach with it, then why couldn't the staff be used for that?


EDIT: If the staff doesn't do much damage, then only the stun effects of the blugeon skill tree would be of any benifit. There wouldn't be much damaging of weapons and armor, nor would there be much damage dealt to an opponent if it is a low damage weapon, but even low damaging item can ring your bell if it strikes you in the head. Even the end of a broomstick can knock the wind out of you if it was a strike to the sternum, even though the damage would be minimal like leaving a small bruise.

 

It could work like that. A Mage would have low STR (i guess) so the damage output will be low.

Anyway you are describing some sort of mage/ninja, and almost all mages will have to adopt that playstyle if there is no alternative.

I´ll continue to advocate the viability of more specialized wizards, equipped with non combat magic artifacts that enhances their cast abilities.

So dont tell me,

just kidding

 

I don't think this describes a mage ninja. I don't even think it describes a hybrid at all. A pure spell caster could use a wand or empty hands and focus only on magic and some light armor.

However if a person picks up only the first three skills of the bludgeon tree, and gets the stun innate skill as described earlier, then I have to agree with that poster who says that is still a pure mage. All the lethal damage the character does is from the magic. The staff would be helping with magic, but from time to time it might be used to trip a person.

A hybrid would be somebody who learns a weapon skill well enough that they can attack with a weapon and magic at the same time. (not necessarily equally, but enough damage that they are dangerous with the weapon or the magic either way).

BASICALLY what is being said here is that a mage could learn to use the staff like a jab is to a boxer. Nobody is going to get knocked out by a jab, but the jab keeps distance and resets the tempo so you can setup your next power attack. If a mage decides to learn the whole budgeon tree then that would be a hibrid, but if they want to do real damage they would need to use a more lethal weapon rather than a mage staff though. see the difference? Lethal vs Jab technique.

 

That is fair Isaiah, and i cant disagree with that.

The point is that a bludgeon skill, actually, isn't a jab technique. Unless the knock down time also depends, for example, on STR or on passive skills of the bludgeon tree (so more points are needed to get the full effect).

 

Exactly. That sums up with I was trying to say very well. Learning the stun moves of bludgeons but not the damage skills, while wielding a low damage weapon, is just like using a jab. Since you started this thread, what say you @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

 

Knocking somebody down does function to change the tempo and set up a casting situation. It is possible to stun somebody with a well timed jab to cause them to lower their defense for a split second. The same type of thing here. You could actively stun an opponent. An auto attack doesn't do anything. It doesn't create distance, nor does it reset the tempo of a situation the way it is designed. So actually this is like a jab.

What it does do is create a quick stun "which a mage could do if they chose to use a root spell or an electrical attack instead". So why not allow a mage to spend the skill points to use on the staff to do that type of attack as an alternate to always having to learn/use the root spell? It does the same thing pretty much, but one style is learning earth magic, another style is finesse with the staff.

 

I take great exception to the notion that a staff is a low damage weapon. Ever been hit with one? One whack could potentially split someone's skull. Ok maybe not quite as effectively as a solid piece of metal but still. a staff can be pretty nasty..

*cough*... and it's still a pole arm. *cough*