What Did RG Think Shroud Was Going To Cost?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jaanelle DeJure, Jul 5, 2018.

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  1. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    There's a lot of banter about whether the money raised during the Kickstarter was intended to fully fund Episode 1. Some people even believe to this day that the Kickstarter was supposed to fund all 5 episodes!

    Often times, when (attempting) to engage on this topic, I get asked for evidence to support my view that the Kickstarter was never intended to fund all of Episode 1. It's certainly fair enough to ask for such evidence, and until now, I haven't been able to produce any. I've had to rely on what I believe to be "common sense" that this game could never have been built on $1.9 million.

    Ironically, I have just stumbled upon the answer while searching for any comments Richard may have made in interviews about whether or not he desires so-called "negative" feedback from backers. I found this article:


    Richard Garriott's Shroud of the Avatar: What's the big idea?
    Why he needs Kickstarter, the project's origins, clever bits, persistence, online elements, housing, PVP and combat.


    It's really quite a comprehensive interview where Richard discusses all manner of things that we... debate... on a near daily basis. I would invite you to check it out!

    Anyhow, here's the quote on the cost of the game:

    You're welcome! :)

    Oh and just in case you were wondering what he had to say about player feedback:

     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  2. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    An interesting read, @Jaanelle DeJure
    Thanks for the two links (which are identical btw).... ;)
     
  3. Hornpipe

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    Obviously, Shroud didn't cost $5 million, not even $7 million. What's the explanation with this difference ?
     
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  4. Kain Darkmoor

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    To be fair it was just a guess after all, not an exact amount. He did say "probably" and "who knows".

    It seems to me that one of the fundamental problems is that they bit off more than they could chew. Having to half ass a bunch of features that were mentioned in the kickstarter or various stretch goals, *cough* brewing *cough* just to get them in so they could say 'promise fulfilled' before moving on to polishing. Hopefully now they can change their focus to upgrading these systems to make them more functional and useful instead of feeling the requirement to add a bunch of new stuff.
     
  5. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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  6. Corv

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  7. mass

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    The reason that perspective exists is because that is how kickstarter is intended to be used. You are supposed to 1. propose a product; 2. say how much it's going to take to create that product; 3. request funding from backers who will then receive the product you developed; 4. make more of the product and sell it to new buyers for profit.

    Anything else is really outside the scope of the way kickstarter is supposed to work, so naturally, some people will be confused when you deviate from what kickstarter tells potential backers on its FAQ.

    I think it is really hard to develop anything when your budget is constantly in flux. One month you think, 'wow our budget should be huge with this rate of funding' and then 6 months later you find out that rate was not sustainable. How do you plan scope around that kind of budgeting?
     
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  8. Cora Cuz'avich

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    My biggest takeaway from that, is people complain about SotA's UI?
     
  9. Preachyr

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    Few points, with all due respect.

    1. This was not on Kickstarter, and went up after over a million had already been raised on Kickstarter. So this is not really evidence from the kickstarter campaign that they were only asking for enough to get development started, because anyone who backed the game based solely on the kickstarter pitch who doesnt read eurogamer would never have seen this. Everything in the kickstarter pitch was pitched as being the money raised would be used to complete episode 1, nothing in the kickstarter pitch was pitched as only being a jumping off point to start development and that millions would still need to be raised.


    2. you left out the overall context of the quote a little bit.

    So even if someone did back on kickstarter and then read this interview about how the game would probably cost around 5 million....
    The statements by Richard give the impression that he has put several millions into the game.
    The statements on the kickstarter campaign say that Richard has put in several million and was prepared to put in a couple more million before it was done.

    So any reasonable person could look at these statements and look at the kickstarter which by all indications would be between 1.5-2 mil, and think that the combined would be right around that 5 mil needed. Especially when kickstarters guidelines say that the asking amount should be enough to complete the project and deliver any promised rewards. Anyone familiar with kickstarter at the time would have had a reasonable expectation that the project was following fairly close to the platforms standards and guidelines.



    So at the risk of getting more warning points for stating this yet again, there is still no evidence that the kickstarter campaign was only a starting point. And everything in the kickstarter pitch and everything during the kickstarter push indicated that this money would fund episode 1 to completion. Your linked article supports that idea perfectly well.

    I actually agree with you in that it is obviously not enough money to make an MMO. I know that now, and lots of people have a better idea of that now too. However this game was sold largely as being built by "industry vets" and they should have had a much better idea of that than any of us right from the start. Either they only asked for such a small amount because they horribly misjudged it, or they knew it would only be to get development off the ground and they would need millions more, and just didn't communicated that to anyone. It's highly doubtful that they would have had as successful a kickstarter if they opened their pitch with "hey we need a million dollars, and if we get it, we will be able to just get started with developing this game and we will finish the game as long as we also raise another 15 million over the next couple years".

    I am not trying to cast shade at them either or accuse them of anything criminal or whatever reason my posts on the topic keep getting deleted. I'm just pointing out what happened, and why people can have some legitimate complaints about the process, and why, though I agree with "it was never going to happen for that small amount of money", I also think that poor communication and some bad budgeting projections were a big issue.
     
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  10. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    You actually can ask that tomorrow in the stream.
     
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  11. Gix

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    I think the problem with the Kickstarter campaign (where cost is concerned) is the idea that they weren't truthful about the cost. If they knew it was going to cost around 5 millions, then don't ask for 1 million.

    To my knowledge, they got over 12 millions and we're still debating on whenever or not Portalarium succeeded at delivering what they initially promised for Episode 1.
     
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  12. Hornpipe

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    That's a good idea.

    Edit : done

     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  13. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    And, like all new submissions on that monthly QA, I assume it's presently "Awaiting Moderation"....
     
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  14. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Yeah I got my brilliant moments. Expect not much more from my end for the rest of the year. I am burned out ^^
     
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  15. Hornpipe

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    It WAS awaiting moderation, indeed.

    [​IMG]

    Edit : It has been published.

    Don't underestimate yourself. I'm sure that you are full of surprises ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  16. Boris Mondragon

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    It will be an interesting livestream so please point me to the forum in which to post questions. I believe they will clarify the marketing snafu, how to get more people to “buy in” on this game and what they plan to offer on the EP2 Kickstarter. Maybe they will ask us on a poll what new things we really want.

    I really look forward to this and the hope that one day they will also ask us what stretch goals rewards we want. R/Boris/El Pirata.
     
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  17. Hornpipe

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    You can post your questions here but you won't have any assurance that they will reply during the livestream. Some of the questions are answered later, in the announcement section of the forums.

    Personaly, I'm wondering about this :

    How is this possible ? When $600,000 are (officialy) dedicated to a marketing contract, there are some safeguards and controls (there should be, at least).
     
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  18. DeadnGone

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    I think the changes in cost came as developments proceeded. Things change much like discussion threads. Tack on the costs of staff on top of that for each month/year as well as well as other production values, which is laid out by R.G. somewhere around here and the main site. All sorts of things can happen during production to change costs. Sure, they could have left it as it was after the first 2-3 years... don't think that would have sat too well though :)

    P.S. - was going to post a link of the funding breakdown, but couldn't find it. May have been archived or such. If anyone can link it, please do.

    Edit: Saw Xee's thread and thought the link there was also a nice comparison :)
    https://mmos.com/editorials/most-expensive-mmorpgs-ever-developed
     
  19. Boris Mondragon

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    I am also baffled about that marketing snafu. If I was marketing a product or service I would definitely like to know 1) What target audience, 2) What advertising medium and 3) The message content. I would review it thoroughly before letting the marketing firm move forward to it and tweak it as necessary to ensure the message is factual. clear to understand and delivered to the audience I want to target. R/Boris/El Pirata
     
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  20. Bubonic

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    In addition to the fact that they never stated during the kickstarter that the game would cost more than the money they were asking for, they also gave a release date of October 2014. Which they could not have possibly truly believed.

    Of course, I believed them... silly Bubonic
     
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