What is the state of the thief in SotA? 7/20/14

You do have a point here. the realism and fun. There's another thing that is a tangent of this idea, is what kind of rogue/theives do they want to have in this game? Do they want a rogue or thief to carry a lot of vials and and rely more heavily on alchemy than most people? There usually is a list of rogue type tools as well like grappling hooks, thieves tools, small throwing daggers or darts, and other nick nacks. This isn't nessisarily bad, because batman had a utility belt, and he was a great rogue style character.

Then again they seem like they are making a deal out of encumbrance and weight. So do they want to make it so the rogue carries lots of bottles and equipment on a utility belt, or do they want to shoot for the minimalist rogue? They could make it so rogue skills not only require light armor (leathers, and possibly studded leather at the most), but also sota rogues might be better if they limit the bulky stuff like two-handed swords, a bag full of bottles, and all the other tools. If rogue skills are hindered by encumbrance (not just weight), then maybe they should build a base archetype that can do well without carrying too much stuff.

Either way I think it works, but I hope there is some synergy between skills and equipment so that a rogue isn't hindered more than other skill sets, but the pure rogue should also have a certain level of complexity that can set apart common rogues, vs those who take the role seriously and are strategic about what they take with them on each mission. I'm thinking that when all is said and done there will likely be some kind of encumbrance issue, that makes rogues more of a finesse character (like mages) when all is said and done.

 

If rogue equipment is very useful it might be difficult to say where the trade off should be if encumbrance is an issue. Should a rogue choose to carry more stuff they might have a negative modifier to hiding etc, but then again they might have more utility belt stuff and have a fix for every issue that comes up like batman.

Then again a person who wants to play an assassin, might have a single particular target in mind. They might not take any healing potions, or extra stuff. They might bring along a grappling hook and a rope to climb on rooftops, and maybe a few poisoned darts, and a poisoned dagger, or a poisoned rapier, and the rest be just be light armor.

It would be interesting if the rogue had greater bonuses to the rogue skills, the less encumbered he or she is.

 

A rogue has to be smart, plan, use his wit, and make due what he's got. You mention Batman.. think about MacGuyver :>

By the time a rogue is carrying around bags of alchemy equipment, he's no longer a rogue, he's a sapper.

 

They haven't talked about things like lockpicking yet... I really wonder where they're planning to go with that.

 

Good point. I was thinking pure rogue but this game is classless, and there will be other combinations like this. Also if the rogue lets go of the backstab stuff and focuses on archery, the guy could be a stealth sniper.

I imagine it would be interesting in a guild war if there were several players that used stealth and a little bit of lunar magic or some charged thing that will allow them to shoot arrows, and turn invisible and move around. If you had 5 guys all shooting that armor piercing arrow or some combination all at the same time on one guy, stealth archers would be quite deadly and then they could blend in again until they pick off the next guy.

EDIT: Cant win a war with those guys, but they would make a great support team in a castle defense scenario.

 

Unless of course he throws it in my eyes! I rest my case!

 

Well, there isn't a standard definition of what a rogue is, and the dictionary definition is kinda useless here.

Depending on who you ask, what is a rogue vary wildly. I consider Han Solo a rogue, for example. The same with many swashbuckler heroes. Tinkerers often have common areas, after all traps and mechanical weapons (such as crossbows) are often seen as typical of a rogue. Ninjas are somewhat related, as are bards (under AD&D 2e, if I'm not mistaken, both thieves and bards, as well as all their class kits, are kinds of rogues).

So, before finding out if rogues are well presented in SotA, there is a need to define what in SotA is considered a rogue.

(BTW, I consider a sapper that uses stealth, rather than violence or the cover of his unit, to get where he needs to be and install his explosives to be a full-blown (no pun intended) rogue.)

Which is something I often find funny in fantasy RPGs. Many fantasy scenarios have magical materials that are transparent like glass but strong like steel, be it some kind of magically reinforced glass, some kind of transparent steel, a force field spell made permanent, or something else altogether. How come high end helmets don't have sturdy eye protection by default?

Besides, it would not really work with most of my characters. I use thick glasses in real life and love the steampunk aesthetics, so whenever possible I have my characters use steampunk-style closed goggles; in many games I even pick Engineer as my profession just to have ready access to goggles

 

Sure, Hans Solo is like a ranger in some respects.

Tinkers, it depends.. you can play a tinker as a rogue, or as something differently entirely. I played a campaign where my character was a tinker gnome (thanks Tracy!), and instead of bringing weapons into battle, he rolled in a huge killing machine. It fired blades that bored into peoples wounds and injected toxins into the open wounds. Of course, being a tinker gnome, the machine didn't always work as expected and broke down a lot. But he was more of an engineer than a rogue. :>

 

Nah man - you make locks ... and you look out for other peoples properties - thats why you have the eye

 

You mean in a world where there are safe zones and Avatar's are immortal? Nope.

 

The dagger is a symbol of vigilance, and the wings of a protector. :>

 

The dagger has always been a sign of stealth and assassination because it is an easily concealable weapon. I've never heard the term "Cloak and Rapier", but "Cloak and Dagger" I have heard of.

 

The verdict about the thief type character is very important to me. I am very much wanting to play that kind of stealthy character that picks locks, disarms traps, sneaks in shadows as that solo thief or maybe a group of thieves. I'm not really interested in the rogue type that is just a bunch of rogue-ish style moves. There are plenty of games now that have that. As far as I am concerned that is just another fighter type. You gotta have the skills that originally defined a thief as a thief. That which the name is defined as in the dictionary.

At this point in time I can see reports of it not happening and happening. I think Portalarium needs to lets us know these things to end all debate and so we can move on giving ideas to the game that might actually be used instead of talking up a storm and producing no rain in a manner of speaking. Let our words be fruitful and in order to do that we need to know the future of what Portalarium has for the thief/rogue character. Its time for Portalarium to speak up.

I would throw this out there for thought.

In a steampunkish environment like the one we are helping to develop, clockworks of all varieties will be everywhere. I would assume that since this IS the case the skill of Lock Picking, Find traps, Disarm Traps/set traps, finding secret doors and the like MUST be in the game in some form. If not by those names maybe an mechanical engineering score or maybe its encompassed as a part of the "magic" system of this world. If this is the case it takes a player to use these skills to move into locations and exploit them appropriately. The player sees the chest he/she just knows has loot in it? It does not matter if its find traps then pick locks OR its the Mechanical Engineering skill. Its the same result in the end. The chest blows up in your face or you get the loot.

 

I have to say I agree about the disarm traps and picking locks etc. Keep in mind they said stuff about adding skills after the release of the actual game. So if some skills aren't developed for the initial release it doesn't mean they will never be added.

One thing I do not want to see is the "UO theif" that could disarm you and steal your weapon. That's just plain unrealistic and a stupid game mechanic. The UO thief was like a pesty gnat that was always in your face at banks etc. ***Thieves shouldn't be noticed at all*** I don't want to have a stealing skill in the game when you know that somebody is probably using it on you. It is better they never add a stealing skill because we will always be expecting the guy that just walked up next to you to be using it. You cannot pick pocket a person who is holding or guarding their pockets.

GOOD STEALING SKILL:
Although I wouldn't be opposed to having a pick pocket skill that can lift a small amount of gold from a person but it could only be used in a crowded area on the move. That's how most pickpockets work. You are at an airport or a train station and as people start moving and crowding together they swipe your wallet... (always keep your wallet in a front pocket, and keep purses closed and held closely! lol)

 

I loved the UO Thief.

You can't guard your pockets if you're holding a weapon.

 

A beginning is the time for taking the
most delicate care that balances are
correct.

-- Princess Irulan, "Manual of Maud'Dib"