What would be the downside to doubling the ore in Serpent Spine?

I'm sure most of you will have seen the various threads about the new Serpent Spine mines and the general feeling is "looks great, sucks for mining". With that in mind I'm looking for a serious discussion on what would be the downside if the ore nodes were doubled in that zone?

1. Producer XP would be increased
but at 300 xp per node rather than 500 there are faster ways to gain producer, even if the ore nodes were doubled.

2. More ore on the market from people selling it.
Why would this be a bad thing? Prices would drop due to more iron being available but more crafters would be able to afford to actually buy it. This won't be introducing more cash into the economy (no one shop feeds ores) but would simply be redistributing the money already available in game. Also with more ore available there is a higher chance of people wanting more masterworks and enchants thus satisfying the gold sink for broken equipment.

3. people will get better gear.
With the scaling up of most of the high level zones people are already running around in +12 gear simply because the higher level players can grind enough cash to throw money at it. The only people this really effects is the lower levels who can't afford to get higher level gear crafted, this will be helped by number 2 above and help bridge the divide between the higher and lower levels. They will still need the xp and skills to go with the armour to be effective

Can anyone else think of any reasons why doubling the ore nodes in serpent spine would be a bad thing?

 

I would honestly ask the dev's to listen to Scoffer. Scoff and Shim are some (if not thee) top end crafters in this game. Scoffer himself I call OCD in the time he used to put into mining (we call him the ore licker). If Scoff has to put up a post like this, things are getting to dire straits.

Silver and gold are really starting to be hard to come by at any responsible price.

 

1. Really, for a mine with the same-level-mobs as existing mines (and super high level mobs at the bottom) you'd think that there should be 500 xp nodes anyway. I don't understand why this isn't the case. Even at 500xp and doubling the ore there are better places if producer XP is your ultimate goal. Or if iron is your ultimate goal. I see no reason not to bring this mine up to par with the existing standard.

2. It is already an established fact that it is impossible to buy ore at current prices, make (anything) out of it, and sell this for a profit. Absolutely impossible. A lowering of ore prices to actually be affordable on a crafter's budget, with the myriad of other cash sinks that crafters have (thousands and thousands in fuel, tools, disposable molds, etc. etc.), would certainly be a net positive effect.

3. The thing is that low level players? Still can't mine here. Mobs are too hard. Mid-level players? Maybe a bit, provided the ore wasn't in a place constantly camped by things trying to kill you. The current setup is not mining-friendly at all. High level players? Have better ways to get ore and/or money. I don't think that bringing the new mine up to the level of existing mines is going to cause people to get better gear. It isn't allowing ore to enter the game any faster than it already is, just from a different location.

 

Here is the other thing I hope the DEV's take into account, with the amount of time and limited ways to get enough resources, we are already stepping on each other trying to gather enough materials with a small subset of players. What happens once the game goes live and you get a massive influx of new players? The instances are going to be more swamped than what they are now.

 

My opinion of the new mine is about the same as most peoples', but I really doubt it has much impact at all the current economy because Serpent's Spine was already not the best place to get iron.

The real concern is that all of the mines yet to be uncloned will end up this way.

 

That is exactly the reason for the post.

Since this is the first uncloning of the mines I'm wondering if in 3 months time we will have anywhere left that we can get ore at a reasonable rate.

 

Sometimes I ask myself the question "Why such drastic measures on the unclone of mines". @Devs, why not make cosmetic changes on the mine appearance without changing the ore placement/mobs/original layout. Remember the potential future customers reading these forums and how it may affect their perception of whether or not to pay to play this game. R/Boris/El Pirata

 

I'm not sure doubling the ore nodes would work. Well not for me. Even if they tripled the ore nodes. I would still have to run around, take the cart, kill piles of mobs. There are other places to mine that are better than this one. I think just about everyplace that has the word "mine" in it's title is a better area for mining. This zone is an adventure/exploring zone that happens to be in a mine. I want to call it abandoned mine but there are loads of mobs in it so, dead mine ? let's go with that it's an Adventure/Exploring Zone that happens to be in an old dead mine.

 

My concern is that this is part of a larger initiative to slow down crafting progression. The problem is its a bit shortsighted; there are those people who will grind (or flat out buy for real money) enough coin/ore to stay ahead of the pack. Crippling the rate that ore can be acquired is only going to widen the gap. We're already seeing new folks join the game, try out crafting, and then say screw it because it will take them 1000 hours of mining to get the producer xp / materials to make anything remotely decent. This is partly due to the resource acquisition rate being extremely slow, and partly due to some baffling recipe choices like needing 40 ores to make a ring. In truth, the material consumption amounts in SotA are really high. You literally need thousands of ore to make anything decent. And the best you can get right now is a couple hundred an hour. I'm not even talking about the tens of thousands you'd need to level up the skills. Nerfing the ore faucet is only going to gum up the entire system. I'm not banking on the mystical "huge influx of players" that will come at "launch" whenever that might be. I think most of us who are passionate about the game are here already. And when these new people come in, the content is already far beyond what is possible until they make significant adventuring progress, and then they'll find that they need to spend 1000 hours smacking nodes to even get a toe in the door of the crafting system, well...we've already seen a lot of people give up on it, even with the mines as they are now.

I'd really like to know what the Dev vision is for mining, and crafting in general. As times goes on, and 'best in slot' artifacts are added, ore spawn is reduced, low level mines are essentially removed (RIP owls nest) - whats the goal here? Perhaps the community could help brainstorm other ways to achieve that goal.

 

Scoff and I are calling it "Serpent Spine Cave". It has about as much ore acquisition as outdoor adventure zones, minus the trees, cotton, and skinnables.

 

I actually am hoping elyssium gets the same effect.
Then maybe with 0 silver running around and the max yield down to 30% of the current, enough people will complain that they actually elaborate on their end game plan regardding this issue.

I simply dont see the crafting / eco long game plan.

I know Randbo has to be one of the highest end crafters in game ( hes quite literally gn everything, all masterworka and 75%? Of the specialty masterworks) and his opinion reflects this post exactly.

 

Serpent Spine Mine was an Iron Ore mine, It had a good supply of Iron Ore. It has been said that there are as many nodes in the new Serpent Spine Mines as before and that may be true if you count Clay Deposits and Crystals but even then I do not believe it. The miners I know have said they could mine 100 - 150 iron ore on average per hour out of the old Serpent Spine Mines.

Reports I have had beck from people are numbers like 18 ore in two hours, 3 ore in 45 minutes, and my own test was 9 ore in 1 1/2 hours.

Far too much distance between Ore Deposits causes some of the problem but there just are not enough nodes.

Now a New Verdantis Mines is set to be released soon. If that cuts back as much as Serpent Spine Mines then there goes a good source for Copper.

Who is running the METRICS, it has been a week or more. What do the numbers say? How much Iron Ore was taken out of the Mine prior to the change and how much is being taken out now? My guess is there is hardly anything being taken out of that mine now, which makes it basically useless as a mine.

 

I sincerely hope we don't have to hit rock bottom in order to see things improve.
I already spend 90% of my playtime engaged in ore acquisition or activities to support ore acquisition.

With regard to Gamician's question, in the 'clone mines' I can get about 200 hour an ore, slightly more if I alter my route a bit to get a mix. Base ore, not counting granite and the occasional alloy metal. This is with grandmaster mining/swift mining, tb tool, obsidian potions, and the ability to mow through the mobs pretty quick. I do slightly better in etceter simply because there's less waiting on respawn. I can't give you a number on the new serpent spine, because I ran around there fighting and saw very little ore to actually get. That and having to chase water elementals around, fool around with the minecart-of-death and the general hazardous navigation, eh. As Sway says above, even if they tripled the ore in here I don't think I'd go. If they tripled the ore and made it 500 xp nodes, it would still be a 'maybe'.

 

As you can see, this isn't coming from someone new to the game who hasn't spent a lot of time crafting and mining.

I think I have yet to find someone who thinks the ore in serpent spine is adequate to the level and size of the zone.

 

T6 mobs with 300xp nodes?
Am I reading that right?

 

Simple fact is that crafting has become a 1% thing. Its not even worth trying it as a casual hard core like myself. It takes some seriously dedicated people like Scoff and Shim to do it. Fortunately, these 2 happily help our guild mates and will enchant and master craft for the mats alone.... because they are good people. They could be charging people a fortune for all the time they have put into it. I have a lot of time into crafting and probably millions in gold and Im still 2 years at my play time away from being in the 1%.

 

The T6 mobs are only actually at the very bottom of the mine. For the most part they are T4-5 Kobolds, water elementals and slimes in the actual main part of it before you go deeper.

 

Here is my beef with the way crafting has been moving towards.... I spend an hour per day and 5-8 on weekends just mining to gain exp and materials... Now I am GM Mining, GM Blacksmith, GM Enchant, etc.. So I have a LOT of hours in these damn mines..

We started off where we could mine x amount upon release of the persistent game.. Every few months that number has gone from x to x - 25% or higher for materials obtained while mining unfortunately and now the NEW and Improved Serpents Spine Mines they have taken the number to x - 90% the ore you used to obtain.

The devs state that they are building the game based off of our feedback and while the visual changes are great for Serpent spines mine, the fact that it is no longer a Mine is where we are at. First level... hmmm not much to mine going from platform to platform and go into the rooms / spaces, etc.

Second level... Nope nothing there...

Third level... Ha... Gotcha again!

4th+ level... Now we have a small room, well after you get past the Lich and all the orange archers (I am level 80+ mind you and Melee) which tend to kill me rather quickly when they find me, you find a small room that actually has some ore in it.

Unless the ore is actual spawning behind the walls, I do not consider this a mine anymore and to go into the mine it is a waste of time as a miner. The dev's state they are building the game for us, we have complained / bitched about the low amount of ore in the mine, only to be told it has the same amount in it as before and this is just not the case. On the first floor alone in the old mines there were at least 18 iron ore nodes and at least 6 Silver nodes on this level.. I seriously doubt there are 14 nodes in the ENTIRE MINE! If the mine had the same amount in it, it must be setup for DEV's only because the rest of the miners just do not see the ore nodes and we do not get anywhere near the amount of iron we used to get from the mines. I asked before the mines were even released to ensure the mines do have the same producer rate and received a response that this request was passed onto the proper people..

IF you wanted a resource to be hard to obtain, first start off with a smaller amount and the as you can test your data, you can adjust it upwards. While this is the way it has started, we have not see an adjustment and it needs to happen ASAP because everyone is complaining about this...

Sorry just my .02 ramble

 

if they made gold ore rare, that would be the smartest move they could ever make. but to make all ore rare is just plain dumb.

 

While the number of ore nodes may be the same as before, the time it takes to go from one nodes to the others have increase significantly. It's like the good ole day where we can mine without interruption after the first wave of mobs got cleaned up in Graff mine is now long gone.

Miners will have to put more effort into fighting mobs, travel between nodes, and such.

Serpent is a good new adeventure zone, not so much if with the traditional mining we have been done for years.