What wrong with ranged ??

1) if that's the intent, ok? That's the way it is today. We cannot harm turret positions. I would say it's bad design to create turret positions that can't be reached by the player or pathed to/from by NPC's, but that's just my opinion.

2) not what's happening, nope. Right now, they can path to us, and we cannot harm them. This is trivial to reproduce, so I'm scared to ask... do you need a video demonstrating this?

3) yes, this is whats happening all the time unless a pet or player is in melee ranged, and is what's causing all the problems.

It sounds like you're not considering the 99%, but rather the 1%. 99% of the time is what most players are doing: We're ranged attacking a creature on semi-flat ground that there is a clear path to/from us/them. This isn't working. We can't harm them. The creature just stands there doing nothing, despite clearly being able to reach us.

 

Yet, you are a player.

 

The creature crushes the pet... there's no exploit.

 

So they are free to damage us, but we cannot damage them? Not fair, and this is happening a lot.

 

Breaking combat to 'fix' an exploit is not a fix.
As a mage having to aggro w/my body is insane.
As an Archer being at a range is your biggest advantage, having to close that gap to almost nil to start a fight also seems a bit suicidal.

 

I've experienced this "attacking from range and doing 0 damage" and after reading your clarifications i think this is what's not working well. The issue is not reproducible 100% just for attacking long range, instead it happens usually. Probably the pathing check is thinking that "they cannot reach us" when in fact they can.

It's useful to make wolves run away though!

And since we are discussing ranged problems... I'd like to bring in hit chance. Melees hit multiple enemies, and magic doesn't seem to be handled the same way physical attacks are (regarding hit chance). Having to fight enemies one by one and considering only face full fights (your enemy is usually chasing you and you running from him, it's hard to get your enemy's back unless you have additional means to stop him (stun, root). Maybe Eagle eye needs to be boosted, or Mob dexterity reduced.

 

I actually think this is a good idea, I'd prefer that folks don't have a target at all if the npc is going to disqualify it. I'll see what traction I can get on that change.

 

Then what is the point in training in the ranged skill that allows us to have a little distance between us and the mob if it is not going to work?

 

But I'm around 20mt from it, as I wrote. The mob is blissfully unaware of me, as I wrote, yet has a clear path toward me - I usually use an opening shot from behind, when the mob turns around.

What is your idea of "melee range", exactly?

 

I'm partially glad for this problem because it means my chain lighting isn't aggroing ever single mob in the map... it's chaining range is absurd, but at the same time it really sucks having to get so close to the enemy as a pure mage.

 

Could I ask what the intended functionality is to be eventually for ranged combat?

I don't want to have to close to the creature's awareness range when I've trained up a skill that allows me to sit back, attack from a distance and hopefully dispatch it before it reaches me. I would expect that if I hit a creature with sub-20m awareness from 20m that it takes a better look around and notices me, instead of blissfully ignoring everything until I get within it's perception.

* Another option is for creatures to 'roll' to see if they can see who (outside of their awareness range) hit them. If they fail, they can do a version of the retreat scramble where they run to a few points in random directions and maybe get lucky and be within their awareness range of their attacker. Start adding things like notifying nearby allies during the scramble that you've been attacked and it's harder for a player to exploit.

 

So this is intended?

Seems to me i have a clear line of sight and i'm not half a map away. How is this intended? Might as well scrap anything ranged and give us all wooden sticks to hit things with.

I would make a vid, but i am a computer noob and have no idea where to start. If someone could do a follow up with a vid i'd appreciate it.

Edit for typos

 

The reticle changes to a dot when something comes in range, yet when I shoot at it, it shows damage as 0. The shots that land the target shows 0 and it actually shows "miss" if I didn't hit it. All of this doesn't happen when I'm actually out of range (according to the reticle).

Either I'm in range to shoot something, or I'm not. Having a mid-way where all indicators are that you're in range, and actually are not, is confusing. How do I then know when I'm actually really-eally in range? When I aggro them? Not quite the point of being an archer with increased range then, is it?

 

Yes it is, at this point. One thing to note here is that there are several 'moving' parts that have to work together.

Wooden sticks would be melee, you would need to be about a meter away to do any damage. With ranged you don't need to be at melee distance. Melee distance is different than awareness distance. Timer wolves have a default 20m awareness that can be overridden in a scene depending on what design wants. You could continue to hit at 20m all day long until it dies.

Wolfs may need to be tuned if we want folks to be able to hit them from greater distance. That falls to level design to setup, balance and tune.

Keep in mind that we are in full development for this game... things will continue to be refined, fixed, patched until we achieve the balance needed.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Should this be adjusted for some spells that have a longer range? Obsidian arrow has a range of 30 for example.. with this 20 limit get in the way of trying to hit something 30 away?

 

My question remains: what UI indicator will there be to show that I'm in range enough to do damage?

The indicator I use to have (ie, the reticle turning to a dot) is now pointless and gives me no information I can use.

 

I talked with Chris about this earlier. If the weapon has greater range potential it won't have an affect past the limit of the creature.

 

Next, we're going to add something better than the '0', some feedback that you can't do damage.

 

Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying, but do you mean then that Obsidian arrow and it's range is not going to be accounted for because the awareness of a mob is less than the range I am able to apparently reach? Why have any glyph that has a higher range than 20?

 

The "extra" range will not have an affect. The wolf w/ 20m.... > 20m will work, but 30 will not make the wolf take damage at 30m.

Mobs have different awareness ranges, many of which are quite a bit greater than 20m... Dragons have a 128m range.