Why Can't You Use Dash on the Overworld Map?

I agree there should be some reason for using torches vs. light spells and healing touch vs. potions. There are right now, but it's not significant enough to make it a real choice.

I've also found it odd that, like you noted, there are both dash and sprint skills.

A lot of complexities to manage with the map scale... the actual speed of the avatars is so fast already, everything would end almost instantaneously. It shows how much need there is to consider the design of travel and all the other things that could happen on the overworld map.

 

~Indeed True!~
We still haven't yet implemented the "Run Rabbit Run" contraband side of our overland map's game which causes the runner to be eligible PvP while making such a run. This was somewhat fully discussed early on within one of Lord British's stand-up YouTube talks... but I don't have the time to go looking for it right now...



~Time Lord~

 

If Sprint (Light Armour) and Dash (Air Magic) can be used on the world map, then I should be able to knock down control point walls on the world map with my mighty Body Slam (Heavy Rrmor), Endurance (Heavy Armor: increases strength), Hard Headed (Heavy Armor: increases knockdown effects), Strength of Earth (Earth Magic: increases strength), Bulwark of Earth (Earth Magic: increases strength) and of course all the Bludgeon combat skills.

 

~If this is Ever So, I'm Following Womby~

Yet what our Womby says here has many implications to what our future horsemanship may have a need to become. Already we have seen where a sprint can outrun a mounted set of our coconuts which do (I assume) resemble our future riding mount's capabilities. I know that our dex (I assume) causes our coconuts to become much more swift than when we are young chrs with little dex capability. Will we then have a "Jockey Skill" within some skill branch of horsemanship, that could cause our mounts to move even faster? Or could it be already possible to precondition our chrs for better horse riding through being much shorter, or taller? We have seen where our tall Avatar chrs have a better ability to jump much higher than our short ones, maybe the speed of horse back could already be effected by our chr's height. Then there's the possibility that the horse itself could develop faster travel by it's usage and training. What we do know is that our coconut travel is encumbered by what weight we carry.

Could our overland travel remain one of the barriers to which such things as Sprint and Dash could overtake them?... I think it should be very difficult to outrun a horse... Yet even when we speak of inner-instance travel, "should then a Dash or Sprint be able to outrun a horse?" And, if it can or could, then shouldn't that justify some sort of horsemanship skill to gain more speed?

Can Sprint and Dash be compounded now? I really haven't tested that or read much on those skills, but I do think not. But I have always wondered why a Rend's effects couldn't be compounded, which they do not, somehow we can only bleed so much...

I believe we can safely say that contraband runs are coming and it's only a matter of "when",
Which does render all of the above very pertinent indeed...
~Time Lord~

 

@Vyrin We're supposed to eventually see encounters on the overworld map, dashing or sprinting would allow you to circumvent those.

"Wouldn't that be the same as running away from monsters in an playing area?"... kind of, but not really. In a playing area, you WANT to be there and you may use your skills to avoid certain situations. Sometimes you'll dash but other times you'll fight. There's a thought process involved. In the overworld, I'd be willing to bet that you're trying to get somewhere... so avoiding any encounters is most likely the best outcome. If you're in town, well... there's nothing, so ... dash to your hearts content.

Control points out of the equation, without dash and sprint, the towns are that much further apart and trekking to those towns have that much more meaning. Especially if you factor in transporting goods with encounters prowling the overworld map.

Think about it this way: If you could do it in the overworld, when would you NOT use dash or sprint? When would it be a meaningful choice?

 

Overworld map should not allow speed spells due to the fact that the overworld scene is NOT TO SCALE. Also, it is not fair to the avatars who do not learn light armour skills or air magic.

 

Depends on the speed of the creatures. And I don't know about you, but I circumvent and run past monsters in scenes all the time.

I don't think this is true. Like I said, people avoid encounters in scenes to get to where they want to go, and there are probably encounters you wouldn't want to avoid on the overworld map. Plus, let's say the speed of creatures is thought through - big if I know - you shouldn't be able to outrun a dragon, or other fast monsters.

Meaning? Define that. It's a skill, it allows a slight convenient time reduction in travel.

Again, meaningful being? Who cares if you spam it - why does it have to have meaning? I spam it all the time in scenes and it gets me past a lot of encounters and through control points more quickly. And there's really no difference doing that with whatever encounters you might be able to have on the overworld map.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your points but I don't see as big a difference between scenes of any type and the overworld map as you're trying to portray. Think of the converse - is it ok that I can use dash in a town to get goods around faster and to lessen my travel time to an exit? Remember trip time is not just overworld map time... it has 3 parts: travel time from location in scene 1 to exit + overworld travel + travel time from entrance in scene 2 to destination. There could be more steps if you go through control points. The difference in scale between scene/overworld means nothing. We're talking about total time. It's really that crucial to limit the ability to dash on one - and only one - component of travel time?

 

Difference is, you can pass multiple scenes on the overworld map in seconds... Translate that to kilometers, or miles if that is your thing. You are already moving at an amazing speed on the overworld map.

 

But scale doesn't matter, we're talking about time! It's not an issue of vast or limited distances. The benefit is less time.

 

And you think this is by design? I'm pretty sure they put the monsters there for you to engage with; either to sneak past them or fight them off... not to ignore them.

Granted, given the current state of the game it doesn't help, but in the long run I believe that's an important distinction.

Meaning in the sense that traveling from town to town is something you shouldn't necessarily take for granted but something that you should put some thought behind. Convenience is contradictory to that mindset.

For me, it's okay to ask for convenience when it's about user input, UI or some such. What you're suggesting ultimately isn't about making the user experience necessarily more convenient but about making something happen sooner with little thought involved (I mean, of course you'd press the Dash button if you could and you'd do it constantly without question). That's where I have to raise the flag.

I'm sure the designers do... otherwise they would've given you the ability to do so already

I personally hate spamming because that's not an interesting thing to do... as someone who loves Sprint, I would be stupid not to use it mindlessly in the overworld map. That's where I have a problem with it.

There's a reason why they wanted to give penalties to magic school attunements: so that you wouldn't spam attacks blindly. I feel like this is in the same ballpark.

 

What is wrong with sneaking around things? That's an element in a lot of games. Plus, are you saying I should limit myself to engage the game in some pure way according to design intentions? Let's deal with the game as it is. Right now the actual design of the game says that you can run past, sneak past things. They are free to change it... but that's the way it is now. And to be honest, in a lot of ways it is FUN to try to sneak and run around things and see if you can do it.

Convenience like recall scrolls? Like teleport scrolls? And travel is not something that takes a lot of thought right now. The 1000th time I want to go from Resolute to Brittany, I'm not going to be making a "meaningful" thoughtful choice on how to do it. Again, let's deal with reality.

The reality again is that a little convenience, and yes spamming, will lessen the tedium of travel and get me to the places where I can actually have some fun.

You're arguing for the illusion of meaningful choices, and only ending up on the side of tedium. If I didn't use the air/light armor trees, and someone else was spamming dash to get through a region in the overworld map a little faster, I have a hard time seeing why I would care...

Would it make you feel better if the spell was taken away and they leave in the pure buff to affect overworld travel?

 

You completely misunderstood my point. Sneaking past enemies IS intended design as you're interacting with your opponents (although non-lethally)... LIKE dash, you wouldn't be able to stealth in the overworld map because that would circumvent the system.

I refuse to acknowledge any ideas without considering the long term consequences. So lets deal with the game as it SHOULD be.

I was not aware that recall and teleport scrolls were 100% free... I would then question why they're items in the first place. Since they're all free, convenient and all that, why don't you use those instead of Dash?

You're aware that spamming is the very definition of tedius, right? However wrong you may think I might be, I don't want the designers to acknowledge and encourage that.

Do you know what convenience can do? Look at the mess that World of Warcraft is today.

Absolutely not. Because you removed the ability to move swiftly within the game-play area.

 

~Contraband~
Until this feature is in, I wouldn't expect that any dashing or sprinting across our overland map will be possible...
Until we overcome that fact, all else is just a dream of being able to do so
So it's not really a question of player's desires to want it or wish for it...
We also don't have our road speed increase that should be coming...



~Time Lord~

 

Again, what system are you assuming is circumvented? There are games where encounters can be avoided on an overworld map (wasteland 2 comes to mind.) You have this fixed idea of how the overworld is supposed to work I suppose, or have more info from the devs on how it's going to unfold, which is possible.

That is a highly subjective enterprise. Good luck trying to tell everyone how a game should be and should be played.

Ok, I assumed you knew how those work. Recall works to one point you designate; teleport only works to a friend's location. These will never cover all the areas you want to travel, so you can't use them all the time. And I do use teleport and recall scrolls as much as I can.

You think a little dash - a little saved time - will turn this into WoW. That's a real stretch.

All in all, I can see we will just have to agree to disagree. I will never believe this is the cataclysmic issue you make it out to be.

 

Read my previous comments. Since you consistently miss my point(s), there's no reason why I should bother going in circles.

I really would love to see you try to build a game with no plan and just spend your time patch systems whenever you see conflicting issues as you "deal with the game as it is", that sounds like a totally smart thing to do.

I don't have to tell anyone anything. Remember, you're the one trying to Dash on the overworld map, not ME. So good luck to you.

You just pointed out a difference in something you used as an argument to try to make me believe that these things were the same as using Dash in the overworld... and that's without acknowledging the cost they have. So are they the same or aren't they?

I know how they work, I was being sarcastic.

No, see... there you go again not getting the point. You've been using "convenience" as your primary reason (if not only) as to why Dashing in the overworld map should be in the game. The point I was making with the WoW comment is that, if we used that argument for everything, then yes, it will have WoW's catastrophic "quick satisfaction, no effort" end that it's currently suffering from. That was a (failed) attempt to make you try to come up with another argument.

Convenience is good but you need something more tangible to back it up. Again, you're the one making the indirect proposition, not I.

Listen, you asked a question and I gave you the reasons I believe the devs didn't allow you to use Dash in the overworld. You take it or you leave it. PM an actual dev or whatever, I don't care. End of story.

 

I think we should eventually be allowed to use stealth skills on the map to try to avoid encounters -- why not? Why wouldn't I be allowed to use Shadow Form to try to avoid a dragon encounter? That's fine.

But for me the point is that skills are designed to have costs -- to whatever extent that's not true, the devs need to tweak it so they do -- and that the costs should just be enlarged over the distances on the map scale.

Ultimately, the regional economy isn't the only reason for travel time; its there so travel has meaning in the game, which impacts a lot of things; the economy only being one of them. And, no, right now, control points aren't even a good throttle as far as even the regional economy is concerned; people just go in and run past all the baddies. On the other hand, its fine if mages who have Dash and are willing to pay for the costs (Focus, reagents, whatever creates the best balance), want to go across the map with it. It should just cost more for the same length of time than while running within a scene. So Dash might last for 3 seconds instead of 6 and you're going to use up more Focus.

And yea, certain encounters on the map will go faster than others, so it won't be a cheat. You're not going to be able to run away from a dragon that wants to catch you.