Why do we need a newbie-mega-guild?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Earl Atogrim von Draken, Oct 2, 2016.

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  1. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    There's a big difference between shouting just to be heard and constructive arguing. In shouting, you just yell loudly without stating any counter argument or constructive criticism. In arguing, you diplomatically state WHY you think it's wrong, and give counter proposals. We're after the latter here :). Notice most of the other posters and how they post.

    We'll be announcing details as we develop them. Please be patient! This is a big initiative!
     
  2. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    "Quest of the Avatar"
    The best way to grow PvP is in a PvP training camp and the best way to collect such a training camp following, is to do so through quest. Now, if we put our hands together and peek through this sinister doorway, we could find a better way to encourage players to engage in PvP. This is something the PvP community has been talking about, yet wasn't something that was being fully trusted, because the operation had a guild in the plan where we could create a PvP training camp through a single guild quest. The Fellowship could have had well over 50+ members sign up in it's first 3 days from being first announced, yet I chose not to, because people were still thinking with the thought of world domination through a guild. The Fellowship project was never intended to be that, it was suppose to be a newbie training guild where we were going to invite the Hospitallers to come and help us because it was to be a newbie collection point. Now our Portalarium have made that collection point through the Outlander Guild. What I have proposed to them, is to take that same newbie Crafting/PvE/PvP training guild quest and implement it through the Outlander Guild.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The Fellowship is small, very small and not looking for recruits because they are not needed. They are not needed because we now have many friends to the project (what we call our extended cult members) to help administer the quest. Those types of members are the members we are now interested in obtaining more of. It's not just a few guilds either. Take PvP for instance, the Fellowship needs all the different flavors in all the PvP guilds that it can get (not it's hands on) but it's hands from. This is also not a 9-5 job. This involves gathering enough guilds so something like this can run 24-7 non stop, yet also allow for those helpers to come and go as they please, because we all need our personal play time whenever we want it.

    The Fellowship is also not some web site far away from our official SOTA forums community. the Fellowship is an organization of our forums community and will not abandon it's openness with our community, because we are you. I'm not the leader, I'm just the coordinator who makes sure that all departments of interest are not compromising each other's goals. The Fellowship has only enough members as needed for administering this quest in only it's RP acting positions which are extremely limited and will not expand, because we aren't a guild. Yet the most of who we are, are members of other guilds who have no characters in the guild itself, because it's just hand full of a few actors.

    All of this has not yet been accepted by our Portalarium for us to be able to do, but I actually don't think they can stop us from doing it because we are a privet guild with a very massive amount of friends. We want other guilds to also have their quests and the fellowship will aide them by encouraging the Outlanders to band together and go visit every guild they can possibly find that's inviting to them as a group. That's a very big part of the quest The Fellowship was made to do in the first place, so I see no reasons of changing that. Yet if they do accept The Fellowship to be allowed to run the "Quest of the Avatar" within the Outlander Guild, we all then, "you, me, them, large guilds, small guilds, those wishing to create guilds, everybody" then becomes a target for our Outlanders to seek out and find out about through, quests, hunting parties, events "and even some extremely sinister in game deadly quest experiences."

    All quest writers, all PvP enthusiasts, crafting and PvE players not of the Outlander Guild are "always welcomed" to administer their own quests, because the more engaged with the community any Outlander Guild Member can become, the more likely they are to becoming the Outlander's leader for a short period of time which is gaged in time by the planetary cycles. Then they and their following are extremely encouraged, or outright booted out of the Outlander Guild. It's a Kool-Aide Party, yet done in a very honorable fashion that's not called a Kool-Aide party :p yet this is their exit! o_O...

    Those exiting will have made friends with many guilds and people wishing to create guilds. They are a "lump of people" who's memories of all the social connections they've made then can last them a life time as well as given them an opportunity to have chosen the guild that best suite them.

    PvP and everything are all included, yet all the while, because the Outlanders were given a reason to collect into a group by the "Quest of the Avatar", the Hospitallers of our SOTA will have had their job made easier and our Outlanders become more accustomed to our game.
    This situation is well noted and planned for, yet not in the way that may be perceived here. (All Good Comments BTW).

    Without The Fellowship project, this is more likely to happen. Yet we also must see the benefits within this social dynamic you mention here "which is very real and will happen".

    The Fellowship are not the Hospitallers BTW, because they are needed for all the same reasons you mention above. The fellowship's mission isn't to train anyone, our mission is to provide quest and guidance.
    By the Fellowship (remember that the fellowship is not a guild and called a cult because everyone in the world is fellowship) knowing more guilds and having more guilds involved, the fellowship can then know, or more likely know like minded people that are exactly like the disruptive player. By channeling through quest and encouragement to engage with these other like minded players, the Outlander then has a group they then feel more at home with. Yet if this player is a lone wolf player, then they are least likely to stay. If they are really nasty, then I just happen to know some really nasty people around here to introduce them to which possibly could become what their doctor ordered for their gaming medication :p "I know some really nasty people around here" :D

    Yet it's these pressures of social upset or dissatisfaction at even low levels which would encourage the player to leave the Outlander Guild, "which is what we want them to do because they have either completed their training with the Hospitallers, or they just leave and the Hospitallers will always help them anyway. They are never trapped in the Outlander Guild and we shouldn't want players to be encouraged to stay and camp out in the Outlander Guild for the rest of their lives. This is where the Fellowship comes in again, because it's much more fun being on the outside of the Outlander Guild helping, than it may be being inside the Outlander Guild.

    Social pressures are counted on so this doesn't become a "Mega Guild" and we all know that players can also get training from most any guild or player they may ask.
    But Again; Thus far this outline has not been accepted by our Portalarium, yet is under consideration by them.
    BTW: It's not going to break my heart if they don't accept it, I'm still helping this project out in any way I can and encouraging others to do the same!
    Also tell me why you may hate this idea, like this idea or if you see any holes in this idea, because that's always what our forums can best do for any idea.
    Troll it if you want to, I'm never offended, which is why I enjoy our forums time tested ways of beating the crap out of something till it all looks better :D

    Others may not wish to put their own plans in front of you all, yet I'm not, because I trust you all and do want your input, "where others may not" ;)
    Have you seen anyone else brave enough to put their own idea or proposal up here yet o_O?... those ideas are the ones we don't like because we say we had no input into "because we didn't" :confused:

    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  3. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

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    Being a Hospitaller is more than just loving cats and farting rainbows. I want to hunt bad guys and PVP, and trade, and craft, and explore... and to do that I need bad guys out and about doing bad stuff, a thriving economy, choices out the wazoo, and a complex world to immerse myself in. I love the diversity of SotA and that means I think there's a place for every playstyle here... sure there are limits - but those are extreme yada yada yada. Oh, and did I mention that I sport the Hospitaller tag when I have the time? Getting out and about and helping new players is all it's about. And anyone can do it. There are some great tools already in place to help - and now even more are on the way (Outlander Guild).

    Anyone that wants to join the Hospitaller ranks - it's the easiest thing in the world to do. For that matter, if anyone want's to step up with some ideas about starting their own branch or Hospitaller team; now's as good a time as any. Like @Time Lord is suggesting, no one needs permission. I'd be down for starting up a new Hospitaller cell.
     
  4. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    Two Problems I see here:
    1. That's not the Job of the Hospitallers
    2. There are no bad guys

    But let's discuss that in another Post, shall we?
     
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  5. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

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    Helping new players is exactly what a Hospitaller does. If that wasn't the message I conveyed, then that's on me... sorry. The point I was wanting to make was that a Hospitaller can be anyone and helping new players is their only job. And about the bad guys - bright red virtue cloak says otherwise.

    If the Outlander Guild is going to be run by Hospitallers then a wide group of players in key positions that represent a wide selection of play styles will be exactly what it needs to be its most effective. You're right that this should be a separate post, but getting more people involved in new player initiatives right now could only serve to better create the Outlander Guild once it's ready to go.

    Ok, I digress... wasn't trying to derail the thread :D
     
  6. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    Fighting Bad guys and Hospitallers dosen't fit together in my mind.
    Maybe I am wrong there but I thought the Hospitallers about game mechanics and Community building but not about White Knighting?
     
  7. Bodhbh Dearg

    Bodhbh Dearg Avatar

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    As far as *I* am concerned everybody should be able to be a Hospitaller, and be part of an "outlander" support initiative, whatever their play style, however when wearing the Hospitaller tag, the one thing that they should never do is betray that trust by tempting new players in to actions that make them vulnerable to exploitation... Any such behavior should be acted upon immediately!
    (Maybe what the tag looks like could be changed for others, so when someone had been caught in such behavior, whenever they wear the Hospitaller tag, the rest of the world actually sees "Traitor"... :p )

    But anyways, that indeed makes it hard to combine 'Hospitallers" with "fighting bad guys", although historically the "Knights Hospitaller" did exactly that *besides* their Hospitaller duties...
     
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  8. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

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    That's the real beauty of the Hospitaller - it's basically just neutral ground where everyone agrees to help new players. To be a Hospitaller, all you have to do is help another player. The Project New Player message that is comprised of Hospitallers isn't the club... that part is just a think tank. The club is in the title - sport the Hospitaller title (which everyone has access too) and you become a beacon for help for new players.

    I'm a solo player... what I would consider helping, to others may seem brash... and what others consider help, I might go so far as to call it hand holding. But at the end of the day, it's all helping and there are players out there needing help... Getting started in SotA is hard! Hospitallers make connections and get people started on the right foot. What I see the Outlander Guild providing is an immersive means to pair new players with experienced players in a more effective way.

    Using me as the example... I'd want to help a particular kind of player get started. Not because I'm picky, more because I know where my strengths are and I can see being most effective in an environment such as this if I connect with people I have things in common with. For every personality in this thread, I would argue that they could all be great Hospitallers if they were paired off with like minded new players. And that's what I feel like the Outlander Guild (as a tool) will provide for, a means for connecting experienced players with new players to get them started on the right foot and excited about the game once they're on the ground and moving.
     
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  9. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    Agreed and immersion is where things can get blurred...
    [​IMG]

    I see them as all connected issues. I don't see a need for another cell of Hospitallers, yet the mention of it causes personality differences to be more accommodated for in such a thing, yet when I see that, like @Duke Avery said, the Hospitaller is a tag anyone should use because it displays the desired openness for anyone with a question to ask it.

    Just as with inviting the Outlanders to visit any guild, event, or quest, we are in a way teaching these subjects. But that's where the blurry part comes in, because it's overlapping. The Fellowship discussions had Hospitallers with us there which raised this same question of "where is the dividing line?" So, within those discussions we decided that there was a line we needed to either be on one side or the other. Thus instilled the need for questing agents and helping agents being far different.

    Yet what the Duke points out here, is that when Hospitaller'ing solo, those need for separations disappear.

    I'm not one to be a Hospitaller because I'm too much into immersion so much so that the gaming interface becomes a secondary stumbling block for me. The fact that I'm typing on a computer even takes away from that immersive experience. "Yet this too is what the sinister Duke Avery so well points to". just because I'm not the most computer savvy player in the world, doesn't mean, or shouldn't mean that players like me are somehow left out of helping.

    Our guilds, "all our guilds" will be searching for ways to involve themselves with the Outlander Guild. If these players are all scattered with no reasons to gather together, then the Hospitaller must "invent" guild hunts, events and quests, "reasons to gather together". I believe that this is where it becomes dangerous in virtue with the Hospitaller when it comes to the Outlander Guild and their own guild to become viewed as just a recruiter themselves, "which has been brought up many times within this thread". This is yet another reason why quests, events and mass guild hunts should not originate from the Hospitaller. These should originate from the Outlanders themselves, which is only something like the outside guilds can do, or should encourage the Outlanders to do. Yet if the Outlanders are not all together and governing themselves for a reason, then it as if those inviting guilds are asking a scattered mob to somehow wish to come together, which is less compelling than if they had been bound together by a team mission in the first place.

    Within the Outlander Guild there should be a line between Hospitaller and quest provider, in a code of ethics, current Hospitallers are not trusted by all the public not to recruit and therefore gain an advantage over others.
    Questers and Hospitallers should remain separate, yet in a solo position, they need to also wear a few different hats.
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  10. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    The path to hell is made eith good intentions....
     
  11. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    Right.
    Will do another Post about this topic.
    Seems interesting.
    /Derail
     
  12. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Focus please, we're talking about the New Player Guild, not hospitallers here. Two different things!
     
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  13. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

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    Sorry, I was going off of what dallas had said:

    "To start with, we plan to make our Community Manager, @Berek, the owner of the guild, and Berek can assign additional leadership roles to those Hospitallers that choose to participate."

    That made it sound like Hopitallers and Hospitaller core values were going to be integral to the Outlander Guild. Many concerns in this thread about who will be running what and how this will all shape the new player experience... I'll lay off the topic of Hospitallers but if we can't talk about them when we talk about the Outlander Guild I gotta wonder why; seems like the two are meant to be connected at the hip.
     
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  14. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    Mh. Good point.
     
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  15. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I am waiting for the "I roxxors u suxxors " speak to start. ;)
     
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  16. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    The Hospitallers would just be participating, but that is still a separate topic. If you wish to start a new topic on how everyone (who are all Hospitallers) can get involved in the new player guild, then feel free to do that.

    The topic is "Why do we need a newbie mega guild", so for this thread we stick with that please.
     
  17. Waxillium

    Waxillium Avatar

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    If someone wants in MGT would I be able to tell if they are already in a guild?

    I hate multi guild. What happened to alliances and alliance chat?
     
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  18. Bubonic

    Bubonic Avatar

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    Well, I think it is wrong to be so restrictive in moderating forum threads like this. Don't forget this was a thread started by a user, not an official developer thread. When you combine that with the unavoidable fact that Hospitallers and the Newbie guild are obviously directly connected, this comes across as draconian and unnecessary. What is to be gained by attempting to keep users from discussing The Hospitallers?

    I propose keeping the moderation to a much more... moderate level, and only censor posts that are obviously personal attacks or trolling.
     
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  19. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    It is not wrong, because unfortunately we can go off on severe tangents very very quickly. We only moderate when we have to. If a topic is conflicting and could cause undue unrest, we occasionally step in to moderate. If you want the forums to end up with trash talk in all corners, then we can go hands off, but you don't really want that...

    As I mentioned, feel free to create another thread on that separate topic. Easy peasy :).
     
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  20. Mekong

    Mekong Avatar

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    You sir moderate things you don't agree with.
     
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