Why does the skill Chaos not have a opposing skill?

Without the attunement system, you can max out Fire and Water and be 100% effective in both. I can also do this, and when we fight there's no real difference between our characters. But with the attunement system, you and I need to pick a lane. Our characters will likely vary to some degree based on attunement. You may be 50% Fire and 100% water and I may be 100% Fire and 50% water - or we may both be somewhere inbetween. That's a far more compelling battle in my opinion than simply saying whoever leveled more is more powerful.

It also allows a player that is only trained in fire to be semi competitive with someone that has trained in fire and water depending on how the attunement of both characters breaks down. In short, it creates more diversity and less over powered builds that have no weaknesses. There are always going to be weaknesses in this system at the character skill level. I like that better than not having it at all.

 

Does not the quote "From Chaos comes Order" stand out far more than "From Order comes Chaos". If you believe the former not the later then maybe there is no Order Tree since Order has not yet arrived from Chaos yet. Maybe the opposite of Chaos is Order which will rightfully take its place in the coming adventure. If that were true then training in Chaos would/should offset any training in Order and vice versa. I'm thinking this may be a wait and see scenario.

 

this is, by far, the absolute BEST way for a dev to answer any questions on their forums.
Lum, if you go to dragon*Con in atlanta this coming september, let me buy you a drink for this and this alone, sir.

 

And that ^^^^ is what I was waiting to hear.
The "Attunements" are here solely for PvP, and I cannot begin to express how much I hate seeing that.
PvP is maybe 10% of backers and yet the other 90% of us must suffer these ridiculous "Attunements" so your PvP fights are more "balanced".

 

???
No Drocis interest in them is mostly for PvP hence why he talks from that angle but that is not their single purpose. One could easily argue the opposite, that they are solely for PvE and that it is the PvPrs that has to adapt.
Neither would be true of course.

In PvE and PvP it makes your choices matter more and makes it more difficult to simply jack of all trades everything.
In PvE depending on your build and its attunements some mobs will be much tougher or much easier.

 

If I remove my pvp hat for a moment, and make no mistake I'm quite capable of doing that. My single player fantasy roleplaying self prefers a deeper more meaningful character development where choices matter. I really don't enjoy the max out all skills types of games where everyone can do everything. I enjoy class based systems or open systems that limit future choices the more choices you make.

I dislike Drizzt Do'Urden because he's overpowered. He does everything. Drow aren't supposed to be good in sunlight? No problem for Drizzt. Drow are supposed to be evil? Not this guy, he's special! But despite the removal of his key inherent weaknesses, there's no shortage of Drow strengths. He's the best fighter, he's the fastest, he uses two magical blades of equal size, he has a giant pet panther, he's stealthy, he has magic, he's unstoppable. He's also the dumbest most boring character that's ever been written about, imo.

So that's another reason I really like the attunement system. It creates a world where everyone has weaknesses based on their choices. I find that much more interesting.

 

Chaos is ok, BUT being the Avatard is the best! (AS I learned in November 2014).

 

There are currently 7 Combat Skill Trees, 9 Magic Skill Trees and 4 Strategy Trees.
Within those trees lie 134 Direct Use Skills and 74 "Innates"
I would love for you to explain to me how anyone can "do everything" - and how they will "do everything" well....

I believe if you were to go out and really work up some skills in trees, you'd have another opinion on doing "everything".

 

I don't see your response as a reason not to have the attunement system.

 

I don't see how you cannot see my response as a reason for NOT having it. Please read it again.
"Attunement" is here to appease the 10% PvP crowd, and has NO purpose in PvE...

 

Chaos is its own penalty.

 

I disagree, chaotically chaos should be its own opposite. Or is that an agreement? Wait!

Aaaaaaa

 

@Spoon
Choices smoices, it forces us to use 1/2 the skill trees in order to be the best we can be (in half the trees).
And, like I said to the Baron - I'd love for you to go out and be a "good" "jack of all trades everything"....
Nobody can master all 134 skills and 74 innates on our 20 "Trees".
Not even Themo.

 

Nothing stops you from using skills, you just can't be the best at both opposing schools on a tree.

 

I was thinking if they keep the current mix, the attunement penalty is not so bad. We should attune to multiple trees provided we used the spells.

 

Wow! did this thread get off topic a bit. We talking Chaos here.

 

Sorry Beli, I apologize for my part of the derailment here....
Back to the OP....
Chaos is - apparently - Chaos. (Which makes it inherently easy to derail tho', right? )
I'm guessing that another entire tree may appear... No?

 

*Starts replying to @FrostII falters a bit when @Beli walks in, then completely stops when Beli smiles and pulls out a club*
Wasn't me.

 

He's like that.... But we love him anyway

 

Danellosi Mellonamin, Greetings friends.

As it is no surprise and most likely why Beli mentioned it in the OP, I am no stranger to Chaos or the passion of the multiple pathes it allows us...

After reading all of the messages here on the thread - I would love to just pop a message or 3

Of course its special ... Easy Answer right?

That is a great quote from me and the absolute truth. Chaos is not good nor is it evil, it is not anything, it simply is.

As per why would we need attunement? Well, do you not learn from any path you walk upon? There are no opposites as Chaos sits on the outside aside from all others. Some mentioned that Chaos is against the virtues and this in its self is not accurate. Which is where the confusion mostly comes from...

Those walking upon the multiple pathes of Chaos have been able to always embrace the virtues, it all depends upon themselves and how they view them how they wish to embrace them. Nor is Chaos against Order, the opposite of Chaos may be seen as Order, but neither are truly against each other.

Chaos can exist with Order and Order can exist with Chaos, and both can embrace the Virtues equally.

Here in Shroud of the Avatar, this becomes a bit more confusing as we call Order --- Virtues... Which Chaos can embrace and is not at all against, no more then Order could be, should those walking that path decide to do so. (Think Lawful Evil - They may be orderly like the Obsidian order, but they probably don't follow the virtues as most would see them as they should be followed)

Back to the OP - Yes Chaos is Special.. But then I might be biased .

Let me draw a picture for you...

Spoiler

Here you can see the principles as they create the virtues and humility on the outside (really it should be circling all of them but i won't get into personal opinion). So too would you see a sampling of Chaos. Order in a similar method with Chaos being outside (or circling all of them). Not against each other, not with each other either.

Best worded by Lord British and Darkstarr both, Frenimies.


So short and simple answer to the OP --- Yes, Chaos is special

Without Chaos, Order would not exist. Without Order, Chaos would not exist, without both... balance would not be possible.