Why no pvp fighter should flag with the propose ransom changes.

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Andartianna, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    Risk vs reward has always been a key of SOTA for all aspects of the game. With the proposed increases to ransoms the rewards for pvping are now down to zero. Let me explain further.

    1. When you flag pvp it's no longer about how good you fight. It is now all about watching constantly for pick pockets who can steal items from you with real world value with little risk to themselves. They currently have no repercussions for pick pocketing and many people have created alts and leveled only pick pocket and sit naked in high traffic area to pick pocket people. You can kill them but since they carry no loot on these alt accounts they give nothing for their deaths.
    2. The 10% bonus for being flagged is worthless. It pushes you over the 1 million cap causing your per hour gains to 600k / hr so you loose 40% of your exp for flagging.
    3. There is nothing in pvp zones worth getting. There is no more resources or spawns to warrant any risk.
    4. PVP fighters can engage in duals to test their strength against other players with none of the negatives involved with placing yourself at risk for pick pockets.
    5. Non-flagged players can completely ignore you and hold any spot in pve zones.
    6. Increases to ransom amounts will cause fewer players to be able to afford playing pvp so we'll be stuck with only a small group of players who are wealthy that can afford to pvp. This will price out any newer players from engaging and learning pvp by actually pvping.
    7. Increase to ransom amounts does nothing for virtuous players who don't accept ransom.

    The system is moving to a place where only the most wealthy and geared players will be able to afford to do pvp and they will have no reason to bother doing so when you can earn exponentially more gold pveing. There is no benefits for virtuous players. So in closing where are the rewards that are suppose to come from these risks cause I don't see any at the moment.
     
  2. Thwip

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    Wow man, sounds really bleak.

    Maybe people will flag, maybe they won't.

    Or they might role play robed hammer warrior...
     
  3. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    so lobby for better mechanics for thieving. I think UO had it right. Thieves where perma Grey. They could be killed without consequence on sight anywhere. They where outcasts. It was not easy to play a thief although many people played it well, and excelled at it. The game does need more mechanics to address the issues at hand such as no consequence. In UO you had to join the thieves guild, which made you perma grey to be able to steal in the first place. You where revealed when snooping. when you stole something you got revealed. The guards where active in towns to act accordingly. But you had to be aware and say "guards" or they would not be called. These are just some ideas that could help out here.
     
  4. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    That is what this post is about finding a solution to what is the benefit of pvping if were suppose to be risking ourselves what is the reward.....
     
  5. KnownInGameAsGeorge

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    I thought many of your points were just as valid before the changes. I tried PvP a while ago but having to constantly worry about pickpockets while I was craffing made it not worth my constant worry.


    You get a full time xp increase for that risk. Because of that xp increase the average level your stats end up when you stop advancing will be that same % higher than an identical person who had not flaged for PvP
     
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Not sure I follow the reasoning of some of these..

    2: Isn't there an XP cap for everyone? Does not hitting that cap mean you're getting the maximum amount of XP possible? If you're not hitting that cap are you not earning less than over all than if you are able to hit it?

    4: Couldn't anyone do this anyway regardless of whether or not there are pickpockets?

    5: And? Can not any PvPer also ignore any non-PvPer and hold any PvE zone?

    7: Not sure what being 'virtuous' has to do with not accepting ransoms.
     
  7. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

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    5.. no because a PvP er not paying attention can be jumped by a non flagged person at anytime.

    So a non flagged can go down to 5% health on a mob n not worry. While a flagged person has yo now realize a non flagged person can jump them.
    Risk vs reward non existant.
     
  8. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    If it were to be actually fair then either: eliminate the oracle protection completely and just let people attack other people. OR, everyone must flag for pvp at the oracle before they can engage in pvp. The way it is no matter how smooth talking the person is saying its good, is its an imbalance and is not fair. IE my 2 examples listed.
     
  9. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar Moderator Ambassador

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    Approved!
     
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  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Since when can a non-PvPer attack another player? Didn't it use to require going to the Oracle to get yourself flagged in the first place?

    In thinking about it here.. why is that even an argument? If you want to go PvE in safety then turn your flag off or go friends/single player. If you don't want to PvE in 'safety' then getting 'jumped' shouldn't be an issue should it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  11. Yakamo LLTS

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    A blue always has first shot over a red. ..
     
  12. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    Yes the cap is for everyone and if I hit the cap I'm not getting any bonus exp for being a daring adventurer. I hit the cap constantly so I get no bonus for flagging.

    Yes that's my point if you want to fight don't need to bother flagging pvp you can have no risk with duals.

    As Mrblight said a nonpvper can jump a pvper at any time and no they dont have to go to the oracle to do so.

    In case you didn't know returning a random gives you a courage bonus to your virtues as does not claiming a ransom at all....
     
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  13. StrangerDiamond

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    Bowen has been absent for a while...

    yea a non pvper can buff up, charge all glyphs, prepare combos and then after chilling for a while letting the pvper pve in peace until it has its guard down or is stucked with a powerful mob, BANG.

    It's lame. It is anti-virtuous and should be punished accordingly, there is such a thing as an ethical thief too, remember Robin Hood ? Our systems are too mechanical, too square and are not taking into account ANY meaningful choice that one can make, like mercy, and choosing not to loot an enemy. It is crucial we fix these immense cracks in the lore.

    The thieving system is also lame, we've deconstructed it thoroughly and it seems we had no impact what so ever. I'm glad @Andartianna is raising her voice here because of the respect she inspires.

    Theres only one thing tho, the rewards for PvP and systems that make pvp work are not programmed yet. Such as the contraband system, and many others probably designed. There were too many main systems that needed fixing, I'm quite certain the devs are biting their fingers about it so its not necessary to put salt on the wound.

    Is there some magic that will happen at launch that I don't know about ? Very possible... they could in theory work around the clock and fix it all in one great swoop. It happened in UO, don't look at me like that, I beleive in RG, hence I beleive in his valorous knights and warriors.

    My hope is low that SOTA will become a true spiritual successor because of many reasons listed in this thread. Being ambassador to the xorinite is why I am so demanding of the full integrity of spirituality, because we xcz, got relayed to the... what is it again ? 144000th priority list JIRA thigny ? ctfxx. vb xnt!

    something like that... *displays ticket proudly*

    Don't take it in anyway to be lessening your arguments Milady, they are still valid, I'm just talking about the rewards : They won't be material, yet people will desire them greatly because of new or hidden game mechanics, I know that much. Many more people you never expected to flag will all of a sudden change their minds because a live story will play out. Thats in short what they are trying to accomplish here... nothing less... or someone would have said I'm wrong already.

    But please by all means keep attacking the logical fails of this abominable place holder we call PvP.

    *edited... its late, forgive my syntax *cringe*
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  14. Womby

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    I've always thought that letting PVE players instantly flag by attacking PVP players was a bad idea. I assume it was intended to encourage more PVP play, but judging from the ongoing stream of complaints since its inception it seems to have introduced problems that make PVP less attractive. Is the goal quantity of PVP or quality of PVP?
     
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  15. Barugon

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    I agree.
     
  16. Vallo Frostbane

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    The insta flag is not a problem. The lack of an underlying PVP system is. If the advantages for flagging would be there, you could mitigate the risk. Right not there isn't. We have to wait till Q2 I guess.
    The fix of the ransom system is long overdue and a step in the right direction. Will it be perfect... nah, but it gets much closer now. The ransom system was gamed and basically there was no risk but reward.
    I think some people might not flag anymore, but tbh the current SotA pop is not really what the game should aim for imho. I foresee people coming back, if PVP gets fun and more challenging and we finally get conflicts going.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  17. oplek

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    The stealing and ransoming are perplexing to me. I see them as major dis-incentives for flagging PVP.

    Theft in particular seems unnecessary and a bad mechanic. In terms of ratios, many people have to suffer before one person can have fun. That's not sustainable, and can only exist as an exception.. because there are reasons to put up with PVP that outweighs it. We don't have that yet.

    When there's a justice system, it may become more palatable to look beyond. For me, PVP shouldn't be about the individual (and consequences for them), but more about something bigger that they're involved in (like faction warfare).

    One of the things I like about Eve is that I can fit a ship, and mentally decide "I am willing to lose this ship" before undocking. In SOTA, you're more of a single unified package. It can be dealt with, but is much more a pain in the ass. With Concord and different security systems, you can venture as far into hostile territory as you are willing to risk. It's all about choice.

    So yeah, the PVP system has a long way to go before it'll get people like me involved.
     
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  18. Vallo Frostbane

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    What stops you from wearing different gear when PVPing?
    Why don't you join a guild who reimburses Ransom cost in PVP?

    The new ransom system is a long necessary fix. PVP's problem is the lack of players... The game had been designed too much to appeal to sore losers and in the end no one played it anymore.
     
  19. oplek

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    It goes back to the security status for systems (which I tied together too well). I don't want to be at risk for merely leaving my house (setting aside rare suicide gankers).

    Why don't I join a reimbursing guild? I don't feel that's addressing the problem - the injustice that occurred. Even contextualizing it as "sore losers" represents 75% of why I don't join. I just... can't... stand.. the people. Even the attitudes could peel paint off the walls.
     
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  20. Vallo Frostbane

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    Well and we cant stand the sore losers. :) In EvE you can get killed everywhere... even in High Sec... What is your point? You don't want to PVP so do not do it. Stay away, never flag. You are safer in SotA than everywhere in EvE :)