Why no pvp fighter should flag with the propose ransom changes.

There's more than a subtle difference between highsec and lowsec. Even as much as I chronically autopilot around highsec over 4 years, I've never been ganked. One person has tried against my rookie ship... and failed.

My point is kind of thinking out loud, about why I find PVP in Eve to be much more digestible than SOTA.

You said it yourself - "PVP's problem is the lack of players", yet you seem disinterested in why that may be the case. I'm giving you some data points.

 

But anyway, this seems like beating a dead horse. I'll wait and see. I'm like 95% PVE, 5% PVP. I want to want to PVP.

 

Didnt read all posts, but we need a good Moral/Justice/virtue system.

Jumping from non flagged to pk a blue player = permaflag red for 48h ingame time
24hrs if the other was Grey
0 hrs if the other was red.
Jumping on a Grey player, become grey for yourself if you were Blue before.
Grey who jump a blue one get red and Grey who jump a red stay grey.

Pickpocketing
Stealing from a blue player = 48 hours ingame time flagged pvp
From a Grey = 24 hrs
From a red = 0 hrs.

If you are Grey and you steal from a red you stay Grey.
If you are Grey and steal from a blue you turn red.

If you are red you stay red if you pk another, no matter if blue or grey or red. And times cumulate and count as ingame time.

Red players are like Pirates in sandbox Games like PotBS or Naval Action, they are foes with everyone except their real friends they can trust, can they?
They rob and pk among themself and also Grey and Blue players.
The Grey ones are sometimes evil or good, so in conclusion they are Grey.
The blue (white) people are allways good. They can go hunt Red without penalty!

Grey need to stay Grey or they become blue or red. Balance your actions.

Red players who dont steal or attack any other player become grey after the time of permaflag is over.

Grey players need to do quests, deliver good to become virtuos and Blue/white again.

Best punishment for PVP players to force them doing PVE if they dont want to stay red or grey

Maybe not in Detail, but something in this direction.

 

It is not that the game has plenty of players that just don't chose to PVP, the game lacks deep PVP systems and thus doesn't appeal to its number one demographic to this day - UO.
The game lacks players in all regards and fixing the PVP, ransom and thieving is a big step into the right direction. Coming with a faction or other based PVP mechanic they can attract more people.

We had a lot more PVP going on in the past in this game I am sure post release we will see more again with those changes.

 

Agreed... but more wolves and less sheep isn't the answer.

 

I really do not see how you change that at all with the current changes planned?
To change wolves vs sheep you need to implement meaning to the PVP itself. Coming Q2 we might get that as it is not on the road map until release.
But like I said many times designing a system for sore losers ends up hardly anyone playing it at all where we are now. I am well aware that some might now not flag anymore, but the ones that do finally got a better working system.

Coming Q2 and more incentives to fight thats a good foundation to build on.

 

The answer is simple, it will be ready , worthwile and fun, when i am ready

 

Personally I don't think the stealing mechanic adds anything meaningful to PvP. If anything, its just another incentive not to flag.

I suppose its fair enough that someone beats me in combat, they get something I'm carrying, but it its harder to be okay with someone sneaking around yoinking something out of my pockets - there's little risk for the stealthed cutpurse in this scenario. If the target happens to notice they've been stolen from in time, and is able to kill them, then yeah, that might happen, but there really needs to be some sort of mitigating factor here, i.e. a detection or perception skill to defend against it and, if caught, then the thief would suffer some sort of debuff/penalty for a short time, for example, say they get an 'exposed' debuff that lowers their avoidance (just as an example). At the moment, being caught is not only unlikely and not timely, there's no consequence attached.

However, I do have to say that, in its current implementation, the pickpocketing is a known factor - if you flag up, you're accepting that people can steal from and/or attack you. I don't think removing pickpocketing is going to entice more 'sheep' into flagging up, though.

 

Just to clarify, this is not how the cap system works.
The first million xp is uncapped, anything OVER this is capped at 60%. You don't lose xp for flagging, you just might hit the cap sooner.

 

I think we can all agree that nothing in PvP is going to be right until we have some meaningful PvP systems in place, whatever those are. Tying PvP into the Virtue system seems to be the most basic and obvious place to start. But until then, fixing other aspects is also good, and I have confidence that in giving it attention it will be improved.

It's a good thing that Chris is working on PvP finally. Let's encourage him with good ideas.

 

The problem the OP put forward is that pickpockets will rob you when you are not prepared for a fair fight.
Making it so that can happen to everyone will only make it more common not less.

I personally chose to turn off PvP again after trying it and expect like me a lot of people would simply not play the game if it became PvP compulsory. If I wanted to play a PvP tournament based combat game there are plenty to choose from already.

As I understand it we are not developing a PvP game, we are developing an open world game that has a PvP option.

 

Also in regards to stealing, I saw a great post from Ezekiel Cooper once. It's like one of the "spices" of SotA. It's unique and random, it allows Avatars freedom to express their virtue(or lack of), and creates interesting situations. It does put responsibility on PvPers to be aware and protect themselves, but it adds flavor, and spices up the game.

Sure, they need to ultimately get it seasoned right, and it will be too "spicy" for some, but without it the game looses flavor, and the worst thing is "bland".

 

judging the spicing by the flavor its not working out so well. I would make a new dish.

 

It used to be that you could click a thief and it would stop them from stealing and mezmerize them.

I havent been able to click a stealthed person in a while so thats likely a bug.

As far as mechanic changes, if you kill somone who stole from you, you could have it automatically return the item to you without the option for them to pay ransom as long as you kill them within a reasonable time frame.

I dont think real-money value of digital assets in a game where there are more ways than just theft to lose your items (pvp, breakage) is a problem. If things get really silly and it does become a problem, as long as theres anything explaining that you can lose items, its not gonna fall on anybody.

 

Those are the key words for all of the "virtue" related forced flagging. In game time, and cannot hide in single or friends only online.

 

Jep, consequences needed

 

My two cents..... for the moment

PvP for the sake of PvP fighting. IE. Just fighting for the sake of fighting is boring. There is no point and gets dull fast, even being able to get loot off of another player is boring AND when one person decides to attack another person without consent the person attacked is having their mind changed that suddenly they are going to PvP. This is the moment to roll ones eyes and sigh.

PvP could really be a great time if there was something making it worth being killed, looted and losing xp 50 times a day.

I think there can be that answer but Portalarium is very quiet on the subject.....

I asked a question for the last telethon about PvP. I wonder if anyone answered it?

Personally I think Portal has something up their sleeve.

 

Sure, YOU hit the cap constantly. But you don't represent the majority.

Hmm.. well on the one hand expecting being attacked at any time is part of being flagged.. on the other hand that does still seem a bit screwy and abuse of game mechanics.

You mean just giving your 'courage' virtue a boost? Do a lot of people care that much about a virtue score?

I forget what kind of reasoning allows a non-flagged person act as an aggressor in PvP but if they're going to allow that nonsense then they should take a substantial hit to their courage. And I'd have to agree, if the ransom system plays any part in changing virtues then not looting at all should also.

Thieving is a little harder to do outside of actual quests or scenarios put in the game that are specifically designed for that.. but then that might be too easy to game.

What they really need to do is have consequences that affect the day to day. ie: Known pickpockets not being allowed in NPC towns without being attacked by guards etc.

With launch approaching this could be a good time to rally players for getting that stuff in. They certainly make a big deal about "choices that matter" but it's hard to see that right now between the storyline not really affecting the world and PvP having little consequences. Not to be harsh but it seems like the style of house you build has a bigger impact.

 

Check thier post-release plan, chris mention working on “the good stuff”(pvp stuff) very shortly after release stuff is done

 

You bring up a very good point Kaeshiva. We assume in our logic that Avatars are magical, a very high level player (which are most players who will attempt to perma flag) are highly perceptive and should not be the target of wanton thiefs.

Skill alone should not determine the chance of being pick pocketed. Thief "virtue" needs to kick in somehow, and thiefs who are intelligent and carefully plan and follow the thief code and ethics should be able to steal from high level players, others should only be able to easily steal from NPCs and perhaps for example PvP intensive scenes like the fall where you purposefully go to have heightened risk. A timer of sorts and some kind of AI makes sense, if a thief steals very very rarely and follows the code, he will be allowed to make "high level" steals etc...

It should also be literally impossible to steal in a town, like it was in UO. Even PvPers want to roleplay and relax sometimes... we made a game with safe zones, honor them in a way that makes roleplay sense !

In short, thieving should not be pure math and should not affect players who are looking for some extra fun by pvping.

It would make sense to have free for all stealing if we had full loot and open pvp, but this isn't the game we're talking about so :

adapt. change. mutate if you must...

Make two level PvP flags if you must... one that will serve PK and anti-PK which is fully open to thieving mechanics. One that will include all the rest of the people who want to experience fair fights, this type of PvP can come with long due limitations like the number of players who can fight against you etc... after all isn't the oracle already "controlling" our loot and fights ? It's not a far fetch to have it limit the number of players who can attack you, and the type of thief who can attempt to steal from you.

It does not divide the PvPers, it will simply allow some to prepare for the full blown version.