Why no pvp fighter should flag with the propose ransom changes.

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Andartianna, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar Moderator Ambassador

    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    961
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Viborg
    I can't tell Metin2 is one of best mmorpg but the pvp system was quite fair and simple, basically after activated the free mode from menu, you were able to attack anyone over level 15 (also ppl with free mode disabled, so no pvp protection after level 15) but at cost of rank points.
    If you kill a red one your rank points increase, if you kill normal players your rank will decrease.
    This gave birth to crazy brawls in farming zones and bosses locations, and i have to be honest, was really fun be part of amazing massive battles.

    From the point of view of positive rank (usually pvm oriented) players: Why not pvping vs reds? I can't lose anything doing it and i can earn rank points, loots and conquest zones for farming xp and items.
    From the point of view of negative rank (usually pvp oriented) players: Why change zones or switch channel if i can kill them all and conquest this spot? I will rule this zone and keep it to boost my profit.

    So what was the purpose to attack others? Conquest zones for farming , bosses spawn spots and gaining rank points (obtainable also in slower way from grinding monsters and spent to upgrade skills from grand master to perfect) and trust me: weren't high level to win fights but usually organized party of lower levels.

    "activate the "free" option under the game play menu. This allows players to attack and be attacked by any player regardless of kingdom or consent. Experience can't be lost this way and rank points are lost when in this mode. If a player loses too many rank points, their rank will change to "cruel" and they will have negative points. Players who do this are usually condemned by others. At level 50 or above, Cruel rank (title) players have a chance to drop items when killed by other players."

    Another cool feature were Three Kingdoms, there was an high chance to encounter players from hostile kingdoms in maps, so basically a pvp player always had something to do. Especially during weekly nations war, where players from all over the kingdom joined with others to win the war and gain a % boost of exp for their kingdom.

    " fight a player from a different kingdom. This way does not require requesting a fight as kingdoms are preset to be hostile to each other. In the case of death, experience points can be lost if hit by monsters at the same time."

    PS: In Metin2 there were different channels, something similar to selective multiplayer of SotA but none can switch mode if under attack, just one hit and the switch cooldown stops, btw all channels were multiplayer.

    http://wiki.metin2.co.uk/index.php/Rank
    https://en.metin2.gameforge.com/main/empires
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metin2#Player_versus_Player_(PvP)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Ahuaeynjgkxs and Vodalian like this.
  2. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    You do realize that every TOS has a clause that thy company can change it at any time. Which is what this entire discussion is about changing mechanics that are broken, give no rewards, and need to be fixed.
     
    Ahuaeynjgkxs likes this.
  3. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There are several good points that have been discussed here. Changes like garinteeing they stolen item is returned if you kill the pick pocket is a great idea. I do want more virtue based decisions as well. And no Vallo I don't think being AFK pvp flag warrants having your entire inventory stolen. I would say a good limit might be that you can only steal once per person per day. That would end that disgusting practice of griefing players.
     
    3devious likes this.
  4. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope absolutely disagree there. People need to learn to play the game. If you flag you should be aware that this could happen. Like I said time and time again, if you cater to the sore losers it will become less and less fun for everyone. Should it be hard to be a succesful thief - Yes. Should everyone be protected from their own stupidity - absolutely not. I think Chris is currently balancing it out. IF you would make the rule to steal only once, you would have allow the thief to decide what to steal at least. I think the way he is designing it right now, could be fun and profitable for the thief, while requiring minimal amount of caretaking for potential victims. If we didn't have a nearby playerlist I might think different, but as it is it is too damn easy to avoid being stolen from already.
     
  5. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I completely understand that people that wish to fleece people of their entire inventories are not virtuous. Thanks for pointing that out. I am very happy Portalarium continues to see this and has nerfed pick pocket repeatedly. That is however off topic as the topic is why no one should flag pvp because of mechanics that give no rewards and only risk. With people that have exploited every mechanic possible from chain mesmerizing to night stepping into peoples houses to pick pocket it becomes very apparent that there is no reason to flag at the moment. This makes it very hard to actually pvp if you want to cause no one will find worth in flagging. As my list states you can engage in the fighting part of pvp with no exposure to pick pockets either by duels or by using a POT that bans pick pockets with no need to be open flagged in the world.
     
    Sara Dreygon likes this.
  6. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep they effectivly made a boring game and now change it back to be more risky and fun. :)
     
  7. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No reward = No fun. and no they are not changing it back. The nerfs they already put in place are still there and I and others will argued very loudly against any of the suggestion to ransom changes and we are actually playing the game and not just forum sparing.
     
  8. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The majority of backers turned their back on the game, and Port is desperate to get them back. The changes are a step in the right direction.
    Max buffed Thief has hardly changed towards how it was before, with the new ransom system it's actually a valid playstyle again.
    Don't get me wrong, there is still work in terms of justice and virtue system to be done... But right now they pulled it out of the dumpster again and finally stopped catering to people who crybullied everyone out of the game.
     
  9. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    None of what you just said is factual. Not based on anything the devs have said in any of their shows or on the forums. It also doesn't hold up to what their financial reports show. There are lots of us actually playing.
     
  10. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lol there aren't. The biggest streamer of this game WAS someone who wanted to play a thief.

    Sorry but the biggest event I witnessed here had less people participating than for example Albion Online has AFK in a alliance town.
    Do you even play other games? The community is absolutely small compared to similar titles.

    Financially their records are open. It is pretty clear that current player base needs to increase to make it commercially succesful. So I don't know what you are talking about.

    Also the devs actions speak for themselves. And I am sure a community manager wouldn't say it as clear as I do it here.
     
  11. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    We glad to hear you reminisce about the past completely off topic. The current biggest streamers are not thieves and the past that you are talking about is in the past and should stay there. The financial records are especially clear to those who invested in the company and have actual access to those records which you clearly don't. If you did you would realize that their player base of active players have been increasing and they are expecting a large increase once they begin actively investing in both advertising and pursuing new players after March.
     
    Sara Dreygon and Ahuaeynjgkxs like this.
  12. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dude, everyone can see that stuff on Seedinvest. Even the devs stated repeatedly how many players they need and we clearly are nowhere near 50k active players atm. Ofc they expect to attract more players, else they could give up right now :D And why do you think they make changes like that? To attract more players. The past is there nly hope, as the game lifted off on nostalgia ;)
     
  13. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    They haven't actually made any changes yet that's why we are talking about it on topic.
     
  14. 3devious

    3devious Avatar

    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    2,456
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Virginia
    Don't make me make you kick Caska's butt the next time you see her. Just like I said in that other thread, we can't support it yet! Get off your Uber butt and crack the whip on the folks responsible for competitive play so that all those people don't "meh quit."
     
  15. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then I guess I know more than you :p
     
  16. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No you are considering the topic unchangeable. If enough people complain about it the changes won't be implemented.
     
  17. kl4nk

    kl4nk Avatar

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    186
    Trophy Points:
    18
    What is the change in question?
     
  18. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But the thing is, the current pop is not even enough to make the game float. Relying on their own pop is no option for Port at the moment.
    Why do you think they develop changes like that? ^^

    The player base is so damn small, if you make a quality suggestion that might be unpopular with it at the moment, Portalarium will consider it - as other titles in the genre and from where the highest metric for the game is generated, likes that content.

    Imagine stealing would be like in UO where no cast time etc would be needed. That would be something I'd say needs a nerf. But with the current system as it is presented its damn fine.
     
  19. 3devious

    3devious Avatar

    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    2,456
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Virginia
    I wouldn't say that. How many people complained about royal elderberries (yeah, I said it.) I agree you should keep trying to combat mediocrity but being right isn't going to make them listen.
     
  20. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That is your opinion Vallo which is not shared by the majority of players playing the actual game. Thanks for stopping by the forums.

    Chris is mulling over raising ransom rates for pvp. Some of his fixes makes sense to prevent gaming the system with junk and would also limit the amount of items taken from a stack. These are great changes. Vastly raising ransom levels for items such as artifacts that cost 10k to ransom is a terrible thing.