Why no pvp fighter should flag with the propose ransom changes.

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Andartianna, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    Yes that is correct. Arguing about the average player who is low level. I realized a player like myself at adventure level 120 can afford to pvp the problem is who would I fight when the cost become so high that it's prohibitive.
     
  2. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    Like I said I'd say high level gear takes a higher ransom, artifacts as well etc. The maximum amount one can lose should reflect that as well. How high that is needs to be determined by Chris as he has the metrics to make an educated guess.

    It is absolutely impossible to steal from someone who knows you are there. He just has to keep moving... so I don't know why you depict that as such a big problem ^^
    Like I said if you have the nearby player list up, it is impossible to get stolen from if you know what you are doing.
     
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  3. StrangerDiamond

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    did you actually play UO back in the day ? from this "loose" pvp flagging system, came alot of options.

    For example I often took murder counts to defend my guild town, sometimes from not even criminal people but manipulators and opportunists, meta-gaming thiefs and whatnot... I could surf the 5 murder limit by playing for a while, it would go down.

    You could also provoke people to attack you by going grey...

    If you think pvp in UO had only two rewards, I think we all need a memory refresh.

    Guilds, communities were formed when people decided to leave their comfort zone and organize something to defend against bandits... the rewards were multi-dimentional, just use your imagination bro :)

    I'm ok with opt in opt out... but the rules pertaining to the lore should work... if I refuse oracle protection why does it protect my enemy by preventing me from looting more than 2 items ?

    Does it protect or not ?

    Makes no sense as it is right now, none what so ever.

    Hence my suggestion to have a two tiered flag, people want to jump hardcore pvpers anywhere anytime, they need to at least have the lightcore pvp flag up, this way pvpers will have at least a slight warning there is a possibility this player will temp flag full-on pvp and attack you.

    Players who chose oracle protection should not be allowed to meta-game.
     
  4. Arkah EMPstrike

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    As an average higher end, hardcore but not grind-racing char at lvl 88 i can probly pull in close to 10k an hour if i really tryhard by myself. (Spawnrates limit me)

    And artifact ransom high unenhanced. With the masterwork changes, there will be more +5 +10 artis and the ransom changes are gonna have each +1 further increase the ransom too
     
  5. Andartianna

    Andartianna Avatar

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    Not true Vallo. It's impossible to move when you are turning in a quest. I watched a pick pocketer stand right behind the quest giver and watch him steal from people as they turned in quests. You can claim that's a skill thing all you want but that is ridiculous.
     
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  6. Andartianna

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    Yah so for 1 pvp death you would have to spend an entire hour to repay they amount of 1 ransome.
     
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  7. Vallo Frostbane

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    Like I said if he sees him in the nearby players tab he just decides not to turn in the quest... is that so hard to comprehend? No offense there but all the points you make, make no sense and as someone stated earlier a little bit less extreme would benefit the discussion. Like we established before, the amount of ransom is debatable.
     
  8. Arkah EMPstrike

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    The rewards your referring to are RP rewards and i did mention you could attack anyone freely in UO. Im not referring to the reward of pvp itself, because many here have said pvp for the sake of pvp (IE defending a town from bad guys with the”reward simply being you killed the bad guys) is not enough. I think the rp of defensing somone is the most fun ive had with pvp in shroud (and treasure hunting in shardfalls).

    As far as physical “here’s something for your victory” rewards, they are the same. Minus the ransom.
     
  9. Andartianna

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    My apologies. I'm not trying to sound extreme. I actually more just frustrated cause I actually enjoy pvping and it's amazingly hard as it is to bring people into the idea of pvping already and making the entry into the fighting pvp cost more is insane. The answer seems to always be make yourself weaker to make your cost lower which is basically what making artifact cost 10k would do. I don't want weakened enemies. I want to actually have a challenge.
     
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  10. Vallo Frostbane

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    Best RP imho is when the game makes everyone rping even if they do not knowingly do it. What I mean by that is, just being a thief in the game, fullfils a role. With systems in place that make NPCs react towards your actions and behavior and also enabled player to do that, the game would become much more immersive and interesting.
     
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  11. Vallo Frostbane

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    I am sure Q2 we will see the true incentives for PVP implemented with system we are familiar with from UO or similar games. Until then it might actually be true that less people flag until those incentives are implemented. But the ransom system those incentives are based on will be much more balanced than now.
     
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  12. Andartianna

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    Yah hopefully some blood bay housing as well. Be fun to get into the virtue/antivirtue sides they started there.
     
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  13. StrangerDiamond

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    Roleplay ? I'd say 95% people who participated weren't involved in RP, people had a variety of goals that was the beauty of it !

    Of course I agree there need to be something more to fight for, in UO it meant mining regions, it meant strategic position etc etc... people could build a player town and either win or lose against that other player town that tried to occupy the same region, the bigger the town the better the defenses.

    I'm pretty sure devs are aware there isn't enough incentives right now, I couldn't disagree because I come from UO and sure we "invented" most our fun and used our imaginations, but you can't amalgam it with RP alone.

    I once say a 3 week fight and the goal/reward was which blacksmith from two of the best guilds would be allowed to be the main "resident" blacksmith at west britain.

    Sure it requires other people to play by the rules, no GM helped us enforce that... but can you imagine if the losing guild didn't respect the rules of engagement ?

    They would live hell on earth and even other guilds who had no meat in the deal would all of a sudden push the bad losers away.

    THAT my friends is some of the beauty that was a true "sandboxy" loose pvp system.

    I saw wars over which guild would "own" a certain dungeon on saturday nights, etc...

    when the system is linked to lore, and sure in principle to roleplay, even people who don't roleplay find their fun in it, because it makes sense.
     
  14. StrangerDiamond

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    In short what I was trying to convey :)

    I love my WoTxts :D
     
  15. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Its actually impossible to continually keep moving unless you arent doing anything, theres no monsters nearby or youre talking about running in little tight circles. Just need to be able to catch somone in stealth doing it once you know they are there. Preferrably by literally catching them doing it but i guess throwing your sword around with hopes kinda works
     
  16. Helvig Ingvildsdottir

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    Oh great! I think until SotA implements some kind of guildwar system, I'm not going to be PvPing aside from duels, if it can be avoided. That is because in addition to not having the skills to win a fight unless the other party entirely misjudges me or makes stupid mistakes, I also will not be able to afford the ransom. I do not even own 10k gold. I do own three artifacts, two of which I spent a long time saving gold for. Your system punishes the newbie that is proud to finally have their first artifact and to perhaps stand a slight chance against others with its help. For people who have tons of artifacts and gold without end, sure 10k per artifact doesn't sound like much. Think about it: How much higher do you want the entry criteria for newer (and more casual/RL obliged) players to be?

    To simply say: If you cannot afford to loose/ransom it, leave it at home, is bullshit IMO. So I leave my stuff that could give me an edge at home, while the player that has the higher levels and skills anyways can afford to bring all their best gear. Makes me even more a sheep ready for slaughter. I don't enjoy being a sheep.

    Then again, I'm probably not the PvP clientele that you are looking for, anyways. I love to PvP, and to me it always used to be an important part of roleplay. But my point of view is that of a pure RPvPer. Post-trammel, no loot, roleplayed conflicts that would culminate in battles, raids, and assassinations. My best times were the RP guildwars on Catskills between guilds that had agreed to certain rules of engagement, and with guildmasters that (most of the time) made sure their guildies would follow these rules. It was NO-loot PvP (agreed on through RoE), and it was meaningful (in most cases) and fun. Said RoE also included to make an reasonable attempt to try and confirm that the person you are about to attack is not afk. Back then I was in my early 20s, and did not really understand why that is needed. Now being a mother of two young children, I very much understand the reasoning behind it. We cannot expect such respectful behaviour from everyone here. But not to allow to loot/steal someone dry is a step in the right direction and makes the risk of having to go afk unepectedly managable.

    I wish SotA was implementing consensual guild wars. As I said I love PvP. But only against people that are respectful on an out-of-character player-to-player level, no matter what kind of jerk they are roleplaying. Guildwars would be a way to pick the people I PvP against and make sure they agree to certain rules. And a way of allowing players to creatively fill PvP with meaning and purpose. Things that I am really missing.

    Edit and somewhat off topic: Now thinking back on it, I remember we even had the rule that, when fighting members of warring guilds on Felucca, you would ressurrect your fallen enemy or stand guard at their corpse until they'd come back to prevent others from looting them. With other players around, it could happen that you'd loot the fallen's corpse just to save their stuff and hold it for them, overloading yourself in the process and thus putting yourself at risk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  17. Vallo Frostbane

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    The problem is PVP was neglected for too long. Making high level equipment cost more in case you get killed makes sense. That being said you definetly need to wait until we get a proper conflict system.
    If you cannot afford to "lose" it don't wear it, is a standard term in every sandbox. You can still opt to not PVP here so everything is fair and square.

    That being said as low level player your place should be in group PVP, which sadly isn't happening that much as there are no incentives for it atm and flag for open PVP later when your char is more advanced. With the changes incoming the power gap between players will also be smaller.

    That being said ultimately the game needs a purpose so high level players actually group/ally/protect lower levels in PVP. Unless that is implemented it is nearly impossible to make a system fun for all kinds of people. Right now its important that the underlying systems are working.. meaning ransom based on item value is increasing, thieving is actually viable etc. etc. However I still feel stealing should have more downsides on char choice. I don't like it being a non combat skill, as now everyone will have it without much cost.

    With that in place r50, we can build new sandbox pvp systems on it that tackle the problem that everyone is an enemy, and rampant killing not having consequence and thereby disencouraging low level players because they have no place and no help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  18. Numa

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    Meteor shower might work - as long as it lasts. That's assuming you have to be stationary for a while, like when you have to turn in a quest item to the NPC quest giver.

    Here's a thought, give the Wisp the ability to detect stealthed mobs & players. Let them glow red if they spot something within range.
     
  19. Vallo Frostbane

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    The time it takes to succesful steal is so long that you effectivly can fight etc.... Also Elysium Illu, Meteor shower or other Aoe should break the stealth and steal attempt when you need to stand still so desperately ^^
     
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  20. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Most people are using summon elementals set to aggressive. While players arent allowed to target stealth people anymore, npcs stillcan based on thier stealth level. So a thief who is very skilled in stealth should still be able to slip past the elementals, they do target and auto attack nearby thieves who arent good enough.
     
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