Why the Glyph System's random element doesn't add all that much to the game

I did read your complete posting, but all I could see as your argument was that you're worried the locked deck mode might not end up being balanced for your preferred character set-up. Which would indeed get back to... balancing. You're worried that after no other game has ever managed to perfectly balance combat (as you claimed yourself), you're worried that SotA might not be capable of perfectly balancing combat either.

 

What?

Out of nine points, balancing (ie, ranged vs. melee) was two of them. There are seven other issues and points made.

 

There might have been a communication issue, sorry if I didn't express myself as clear as I maybe should have. I don't doubt that the random deck mode is not your personal preference, just that this doesn't matter in the slightest as long as the game provides a viable alternative for you to use. If you can use the locked deck mode without a real disadvantage (which is where balancing comes into play, hence why I was focusing on that), why shouldn't others that actually like the random dock not be allowed to use that?

 

Okay, that makes more sense. I still disagree on the fact that there are two input variables that are directly tied to skills that must be considered any time a skill is balanced. As I mentioned, even with standardized inputs in other games, balancing skills is constant maintenance and a lapse in it kills games (Smugglers from SWG, anyone?).

I've already stated my position thoroughly, but I do wonder how you would balance the two systems? My "personal preference" is shared with hundreds if not thousands of players (and that's being conservative), but how the inputs interact and affect balance poorly is less opinion than how bad they interact and affect balance. It's an issue and will continue to be, so how would you recommend that get balanced so both are viable and still meaningful?

 

This is where I keep iterating, don't try to balance a system that is by no means finished. I'd wait till I see Chris vision completed in beta and then make suggestions where I see balance might be off.

 

If the system is inherently a turn off, they won't have time (or money, for that matter) to fix it. Even if the hotbar was fixed or the locked system was balanced, it's boring. The entire system needs revamped to make it modern. That's to say nothing of the fact that the game will come out in 2016 some time. If it doesn't appeal to enough players, there won't be an Episode 2. You have several whales on the forum already saying "they've paid enough" and are now waiting; if the game doesn't deliver, the whales who have funded nearly two-thirds of this game won't be there for round 2, or not in the same amount of cash.

I want to see this game work. This combat system will hold it back, and two months before launch isn't the time to consider how to fix it. By then it's too late.

 

I do not like it much until I reach level 40 when I can stack the deck the way I like and then lock it in. Then I go and fight what I want without any of the glyphs moving. Until that time it is only a challenge because I have to play around with the deck, not because it is challenging based on who or what I am fighting. It does give me an incentive to level up ASAP.

 

@OP

I think the glyph system is not much of a problem. Sure it distracts people from the fight and makes you look at glyph's more than it should, but it's really the way combat is designed that is an issue. It's not "glyph's" or "randomness". MMO combat has always been poor. This is an extension of poor combat in a new system requiring glyph's.

The combat system isn't better with the removal of random glyph's, it's just what you're used to and easier to macro or script. Neither of those things is "better".

 

The deck combat system deters people from scripting and macroing because no one would care enough to do it. But if someone wants to make a macro or script, they can, and the determined will, because if there's any game where macros and scripts will benefit someone, it's this one.

I'm not exactly 100% confident the guy behind Barbie's Riding Club and Cook or Be Cooked has this deck combat system bot-proofed or set up for either PvPers or PvMers. It feels like it needs peripherals, and to be on a different system where everyone's using the same extraneous controllers, like a tablet or a phone or a Wiimote.

 

I barely understand what you're talking about. Which leads me to believe that you're either trolling or you picked a poor way to communicate your ideas.

 

"I don't understand you, you must be a troll." Good response. I'll try it again:

BARON said: RANDOM DECK = HARD TO BOT.

DEWD said: RANDOM DECK =/= HARD TO BOT.

DEWD said: CHRIS EXPERIENCE = CHILDREN'S GAMES/TOYS = LITTLE CONFIDENCE in BALANCING PC COMBAT.

 

Ok, now I see what you're saying. Although I'm not sure what =/= means. I suppose I can just infer that you mean it's not hard. Doesn't /= mean "not equal"? I have no idea what =/= means, "Equal to Not Equal"?

I had no idea that Chris worked on some of those projects. But it doesn't really change my opinion of him or his abilities. The combat system is what the combat system is. It doesn't matter what someone did in the past, good is good and bad is bad. So I don't really see your point here.

All I really see you saying is "I don't like it" without giving substantial reasons why or saying "=/=". Is that a smiley face?

 

I didn't want to look up the equal symbol with the slash through it. Yes, it means "does not equal" in just about every context on the planet (outside of some math formulas, I imagine, which this clearly isn't about).

And experience matters. If it didn't, then why are we backing a Lord British game? UO was a buggy mess (still is almost 20 years later) and Tabula Rasa was a complete flop. The last two Ultimas (8 and 9) were arguably craptastic, as well, especially compared to earlier work. If experience didn't matter, then why are we giving RG money at all? His recent track record hasn't been superb. It's his experience we trust in.

 

Chris has been here from the beginning, as well as most of the team. If it was ok to back in the beginning it should be ok to back now based on the same experience.

Also, I didn't back this game because of RG. I backed it because I watched what the team was doing month to month. I've since then doubled and tripled my original pledges because I felt like the game has been improving A LOT. That's not to say there are not things I would change or that there are not major problems that need fixed - there are.

Combat is one of those things. But it's not because it has "glyphs" that's short sighted, imo. The glyphs are just a delivery system for the combat. There's very little wrong with that system, it's the balance and over all design of combat that I take issue with. Saying that it's just "the glyph's" is silly talk. The "glyph's" are working just fine.

 

I do not like the combat system either as it is, but am hoping for an immersion through the story quests, interactions and having a fluid environment.

 

It's a personal insult directed at Chris Spears, due to Chris Spears being the person 'spear'heading the combat system. Cherry picking the projects and his role in them from his CV for effect.

 

You are right Rasmenar and it sounds like you have learned it well. It is just that people who do not like realize that is unnatural for humans to fight like that. The military would never have soldiers look down at their hands, even briefly, to choose a weapon or ammunition. The soldier should always know what weapon they are going to use before the fight and never change during battle. It would slow them down. That is why I keep telling people that they just want to nerf the expert killers either forever or temporarily.

 

PVPers have two choices:

Random Deck = More Powerful due to Combos and Slower Speed due to randomness, lack of macroing, etc.
Fixed Deck = Faster Sped due to macroing, zero randomness and Less Powerful due focus reduction, etc.

Both are not optimum for fighting. I can prove it. If you are correct about this system being an improvement strategically, give me the name of an officer in the military. I will contact them to have Darkstar meet with the Pentagon to save the world through our new, improved military that will use SoTA's preferred way of fighting. Human soldiers will love it and the world will rejoice.

 

I think and feel that the Glyph system is terrible... I am staring at the hotbar finding what keys to hit... When what I want to do is look at my character and engage them in combat with choices that affect the outcome through maneuvering my character, using their abilities or weapons and timing all of them.

I do not like auto target or "point and click" combat systems....

Auto target is boring. You're not really engaging the opponent. You should have to face your character and direct your attack towards their character.

 

UO has auto target and I love its combat system, my main concern is the random deck.
Anyway as Lady Amethyst said in another thread, lets random deck lovers play their way
and lets concentrate in creating a real balance between Dynamic and Locked Deck.
If we are going to have 2 different play styles integrated in the game at least lets make both systems competitive.