Why the needless emphasis on housing?

Discussion in 'Housing & Lots' started by Tarsilion, Jan 14, 2014.

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  1. Tarsilion

    Tarsilion Avatar

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    Looking at what we saw so far there seems to be considerable emphasis being put on a feature that most people will not be able to use with the current limited availability and guesstimates based on information provided so far.

    There indeed is a strong emphasis on player housing:

    1) The first pre-alpha release focused to a large extent on housing and decorating a home
    2) One of the paragraphs featured prominently on the homepage of the website (https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/) highlights "Robust home decoration" as one of the features advertised to entice people into pledging.
    3) Richard Garriott has stressed the importance of persistent housing on many occasions

    So why all the fuss about this feature?
    Isn't it dangerous to advertise as a key feature, something that will never be fully available to many players?
    ******************************

    Things you need not say:
    A) But you can pledge more now.
    Yes, I am aware of this, but the design would have to substantially change if many people did this.
    B) Just buy a house at the store
    Yes I am aware of this possibility, but the number offered there is a drop in the bucket. If more were offered, see A)
    C) Housing is not a key feature
    Well, they sell it as one!
     
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  2. Lord Kiron Maedun

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    A significant amount of housing will be purchasable in-game when the game releases which has been said by Dark Starr.

    In addition what do you think would be easier to make? A new unique first of its kind combat or crafting system, or a housing system that mostly consist of art from the Dev/Art team?
     
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  3. Tarsilion

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    To me "a significant amount" is a useless statement, as it is subjective what is significant. Until it is clarified, if to him 500 or 50,000 is significant, I am going to assume it will be no more than what they have already sold. (To me 50% is "significant".)
    Notice how few plots the first city we saw contained. To have an adequate number for a sizable fraction of players to own a home, the number of cities, towns and villages would be to high to be realistic, at least in case of a commercial success.

    As far as ease of development goes: This does not explain the statement by Richard, nor the focus in advertisement for recruiting backers.
     
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  4. Kain3

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    They keep presenting housing simply cause until now only the house mechanics have been presented. I doubt they could go now like: "Combat in SotA is amazing, fund the game with $500" and succeed, mostly because we know so little about combat as well as we havent seen it in action (yes there are some combat vids but they are not using the full combat mechanics planned) or playtested it. So yea, atm, housing is the feature they present to get funds.
     
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  5. Tarsilion

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    Lets assume you are right and housing is only going to be a fairly minor feature, wouldn't advertising it as a major feature make backers who pledged cause of it feel cheated?
    (This question was recently also raised by the user "Caliya" in another housing-related thread.)
    They will reap what they sow, either way.
     
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  6. Ristra

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    Is it a major feature? Or is it one of the features that has a lot of details that they can give out. If the major feature for this game was PvP, we wouldn't know it, they are tight lipped about PvP.
     
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  7. Tarsilion

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    (Also see my reply above)
    If it is a major feature there will be design problems down the road.
    If it is not a major feature they are cheating early backers by making it seem like it is.
    It will be hard to walk a middle ground without loosing some part of the community.
     
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  8. Ronan

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    Close 1 thread and open another on the same tired subject. (just my opinion, please don't shoot me for it)

    Housing has been focused for a few reasons: backers have awards that must be fulfilled, the mechanics of everything being able to be manipulated is getting a full test which applies to other aspects of game play.
    Persistent vs instanced housing is what Richard is talking about. A house will be viewable to everyone online.
    In case you have not noticed...there is a significant amount of crafting tools currently available. Notice how the focus has changed a bit from housing to crafting?
    Richard had stated housing will be limited and available to about 20% of the player base. That's 1/5th of the total population, definitely a marketable amount.
    Housing was revealed first (only guessing here) as it is not as involved as other aspects of the game. We were also testing the conversation systems during R1 as that will take awhile to nail down.
    R2 will focus on crafting, the ongoing NPC conversation system, shopkeeper interaction, inventory management, and more character customization. Its hard to show off features like the interaction with a shopkeeper or inventory management when they are still being developed.
    You will see focus shift as time moves on. expect crafting to be their next selling point once some of the bugs are worked out.
     
  9. deadq

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    I certainly hope you're wrong about the 20% number. I felt my first UO house was a grand achievment. It was a small one room house.... anyways a long fun story for me. But honestly I'd rate myself as no more than an average gamer when it comes to pvp, pve, crafting or whatever. I don't care if it takes me awhile to obtain what I want in a game but I'm hoping I don't have to wait until 80% of other plays quit the game for me to claim a lot. In the meantime I'm hoping there is enough other things in the game to make it fun.
     
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  10. Lord Kiron Maedun

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    Just because there will be a set number of houses, doesn't mean you won't get one till only that many people are playing even if you are only a casual player.

    Everyone has their own priorities, just depends on what yours are.
     
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  11. Tarsilion

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    With regard to your post as a whole, not just the above, I agree that this explains some of the early focus, for example for release 1.

    With regards to 20% this seems a very high figure given what was stated on other occasions.I still believe that something for <20% of the players should not be marketed as a core feature. It is misleading.
     
  12. Shadow

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    One aspect is simply that this is one feature that sets it apart from other games. When trying to stand out, you need to show that sort of stuff. If a large percentage of funding is generated from less than 20% of the players, it makes perfect sense. A single Knight ($800) is worth more than a dozen founders ($65) as it were. (Every contributor is important, so don't take that differently than was intended).

    But I would agree the emphasis is likely rooted just as much in efficiency, as the homes and many of the mechanics are necessary assets that will be needed to build the world, and are needed early on. Other facets are likely very much in work, but not ready for public consumption.
     
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  13. Koldar

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    @Sir Kiron Maedun
    I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Housing was one of the first mechanics that was fleshed moreso than other mechanics. As other mechanics are ready for testing, we will get to see those as well. Insert plug for alpha testing here: Early Access Schedule. :)

    I think housing has received such a large focus in the beginning is because it was easier to program than some of the other mechanics (PvP, Multiplayer, Crafting, etc). I'm pretty excited to see how crafting is coming along with in R2 as well as changes to housing as a result of the errors that were found in R1. As more of the core mechanics are programmed, more of the complex systems are going to be playable testable.
     
  14. Tarsilion

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    Point taken. Also you last sentence.
    However, is it desirable to stand out wit things that might raise false expectations?

    Currently the average pledge is 113$, but let us not forget that many also simply pledged at the levels that gives them all 5 parts, which is at 135$.
    Assuming that a single episode will cost as much as a regular game (so maybe 40$) this is already a good deal, provided all 5 episodes will be developed with the same care and no bad things occur before then =)
    Considering further that >100.000 copies sold upon release is probably a minimum expectation in case of a successful launch, I simply fail to see how the small number of high level backers will matter in the long run.
    They are however needed to get the game going.

    You could sum up my fears about housing as follows: Long term sustainability and vision is sacrificed for solving short term problems.
     
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  15. Tarsilion

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    I agree that this fully explains one of the parts I listed (focus on housing for release 1) and provides a weak argument for another (advertisement to prospect backers). However It does not explain the narrative about housing being a core feature, used even at the time of early kickstarter information. Limiting a "core system" to a small amount of players just makes no sense. They will need to make their minds up =)
     
  16. Shadow

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    I think many of the higher funded KS projects were primarily higher volumes of lower tier backers. However, you've got about $86 as an average for KS, and an average pledge for SotA around $252, which is quite a significant leap considering. Those aren't quite accurate when considering original backers bumping their pledges post KS, and the like but it would probably be safe to suggest the higher dollar pledges are at least partially to be attributed.

    I am hoping they have this all worked out, and that they strike a good balance. Where people who wish to own homes are able to, and part of that will be the manner in which they're able to reclaim vacant lots from the inactive. I think the unknown can be scary, and can certainly understand your fears. Lots of speculation all around. I'm on the fence. I already have too much invested in Star Citizen, and I'd love to throw a ton at Lord British but we've had not one but several medical emergencies this year and it's not possible. I'm not one of the few with a lot, add-on, or otherwise. So I'm in the same position hoping I can work something out before they are gone.
     
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  17. Umbrae

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    The emphasis on housing is related to funding the game. Since housing will be limited, there is incentive to join one of the higher tiers to secure not only a lot, but a tax free deed as well. It is unfair to judge Portalarium on fundraising on a feature that will be limited when this is the main push to raise money. PBS, NPR and all other fundraisers do the same thing and many of those have items that are only available during the campaign.

    Since the game is still almost a year away from release, we do not know how the final product will be marketed, but it will be handled differently than during the fundraising campaign. Housing is unlikely to be something as highly touted as it is now, but its not like products haven't touted rare items before. Magic The Gathering packaging and advertisements show rare cards very few people will obtain, so as long as they state housing will be limited I don't see what the fuss is. Many people won't have houses but there is no requirement for you to have one to play the game.

    Not to mention with taxes and activity timers there should be enough turn over to ensure everyone that really wants a house will be able to have one eventually. You will also be able to mess with housing in the Single Player Offline as well, so its not like people can't try it out to see if they want to try and get one.
     
  18. Sir Seir

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    Bingo! 'Nuff said.
     
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  19. Arradin

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    Housing will always be availible for everyone and anyone to get.

    There are a set amount of plots for sale ingame ( =Taxed ) . People will come and go, people will buy and sell houses. There will be a huge house market, and if you really want a house, you WILL get one. Either by pledging now, or saving up money ingame. Simple.
     
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  20. Tarsilion

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    As long as fundraising affects game design, possible commercial success of the final product and the degree to which I will enjoy the game, of course I will form an opinion about their fundraising approach, if only to decide which other kickstarter projects I want to join in the future. How is this unfair? After all, in many ways their approach is an experiment. Others are watching them closely, I am sure.

    Let me also say that what you state is not what I inquired about, however right now they are marketing housing as a core feature, even though a large number of people backing now at a level lower than required to obtain a village lot might never get to experience this core feature - unless they change their mind on how much housing will be available from "definitely rare" to something more appropriate for a "core feature".

    With this question I also have in mind something I know from personal experience: Most people read the available material very superficially and only a few are really active and involved. While a little bit of unsuitable marketing might not affect those involved (they knew the larger story) it can be a tremendous source of disappointment for those not involved to much. Yet the number of those is much larger and public perception and reviews of the finished game will depend on their enjoyment of the game.

    Another related question is: Does there need to be a conflict between the funding model and the game being fully enjoyable for everyone? One day I would have said "yes", but since I experienced League of Legends where most of the revenue is made by selling artwork (champion skins) and no other item is not obtainable in game, I would argue that, no, there needs to be no conflict, yet I feel SotA is setting themselves up for it.
     
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