Why you have an amazing community, and opportunity, right here in SotA

In answer to all that would be the attribute of:

Experience. Knowing to value the worth of your own donated money, knowing that all beta developers lie even if they have the best of intentions, and mistrusting an enterprise of this sort that has delved so deeply into the concept of pay to win that it is proud of its Forbes Magazine mention.

 

You won't find a lot of 'official' word yet, outside of 'they are coming'. But people have pulled the files out of existing Star Citizen code. They go like this:

MAX(imum Cargo)
MIS(sile Boat)
DUR(ation)

 

Actually, I said nothing about people simply "asking questions" at all. Feel free to go back and take another look. As for people making, "demands and complaints", yes, that does get me -- and a lot of other people -- down. And the very next thing you wrote, "since they put so much money into the effort" is, funnily enough, one of the key reasons why. You see, crowdfunding isn't buying a seat at the boardroom table. When we crowdfund, we are saying to the devs, "We believe in your vision, and we're going to trust what you decide." It's not, "Hey, I've tossed you $100, so you'd better make a game that's perfect to me in every way, shape and form." There's a huge difference between the two.

 

Much better new cockpit design. Gonna be hard to chose which variant tho

 

I guess I fundamentally disagree with your view of game development and a democratic free market. Even if we were not crowd funding here, people actually have an obligation to speak up when something is not according to the views, morals or wishes. More so though for this effort. Especially so if you put forward a decent sum of money and already not long out of the gate things are getting questionable.

You said; "
In this community, have no fear, you have all the issues of every other pre-game crowdfunding community -- the odd bods, the complainers, the entitled ones, the people who pass their time by wanting to argue anything and everything for no apparent reason... you've got all of them. There's really no escaping them, wherever you go."

Again I say that your insinuation is people who speak up are "complainers" "entitled ones" "argumentative" and I reject that notion for the previously mentioned reasons.

 

Not at all. I see people speak up every day with great intelligence, respect for the devs and a genuine interest in co-existing with the rest of the community who aren't "complainers" "entitled ones" or "argumentative" in any way.

 

If I could Like your reply any more than just once, I'd spam click that Like button 'til my mouse stops working.

 

*The Time Lord draggs his soap box out to the center and begins talking about what "Future" is...*

When we get a game that has everything we have seen before in other games "all rolled into one", are we getting anything from any "Future" back from that mad mix of everyone else's prefab soup? I for one think not... Yet some of what has been must surely be brought to the table for everyone's comfort to "predict a future of it's goodness".
Our Creator/s had a vision to begin with, and one that is set to provide what a single great man's vision was always first meant to become. When his vision of Ultima came, so did we, and with his continued vision, the help of EA Games did continue his vision, yet deleted and added many things that took the original man's vision in product into a false direction... Yet still teasting good to many to this very day.... but slipping away from EA's hands.
And now we have "no EA" to take us away from following the original Avatar Creator's vision.
And So, as a player/backer, "you can add your 2cents worth and it will be considered, as long as that suggestion does not take the Creator away from his true targeted future he has for us in our waiting.

In the past, Ernest and Gulio Gallow made a consistant wine, In the past, EA has made games that are consistant and both products stay consistantly "OK" to this day.
In a man's imagination of future long ago, there came a multitude of game players, the amout which had never been ever seen before, and he left behind the consistantly "OK", to drive his true vision into space itself and now to beyond even that to a truly un-commonly imaginal "Future of Gaming".

So, please pardon me all, because my intent is to get drunk off my ass from this game, because it comes from such a futuristic vinyard that has a reputation of greatness, the likes of which changes worlds...

"Tis not a common wine"
*hic* Time Lord *hic*

 

I like the attitude of the original post, and I agree, from my own little perspective... the community of musicians that has gathered around Poets' Circle represents only one way in which people of similar interests are grouping up to contribute amazing things to the game.

For example: Rather than hiring a single experienced composer to do music for the game, Portalarium has decided to let the game world's music represent the spirit of crowd-sourcing. They've put a large and important part of the game into the hands of the musically talented portion of the community. Though it is still a mighty challenge, and requires a wise and professional approach, it is clear that this strategy is not only viable, but may make history for video game music.

Richard Garriott's own generosity with me always inspires me to reciprocate as much as I can. He has a magical ability to touch people's hearts, and I look up to him and seek to do the same thing with my music contributions and leadership of Poets' Circle.

I know some people feel less positive than I on this subject. However, let me just assure them, and all of you, that if you merely take the step forward to create something really beautiful, and allow yourself to connect with people, to trust and share with them, to work with them, that the chances that your contribution is included in the game and given praise from the developers and even rewarded is very high. The barrier to entry is only that you must take initiative and execute your plans skillfully.

Dream big, and back it up with action and results. This truly is a development team which is inviting you to join them.

Wax Poetica,

Sir Holt Ironfell, Grandmaster Bard
of Poets' Circle, by Royal Warrant
Order of the New Britannian Empire

 

Master Holt,

We certainly welcome your and the Circle's contributions.

The music in the game is excellent, and even better it's in the spirit of the Ultima games.

Even the unofficial ones

*Bows*

 

I'm not even sure if this game will be right for me at the end of the day, as I am not into online/multiplayer gaming at all, what I'm looking for is a satisfying singleplayer experience, a new Ultima more or less. Yet I gladly made my humble contribution, just to watch the fascinating process of development that involves the community to an amazing degree. And the music alone is well worth it.

 

Well said Tradyblix!

 

@Holt Your words have yet again captured the experience with graceful clarity. Couldn't agree more - what a great showing of support in this thread!

What has been happening here is quite literally the stuff of dreams (and apparently, not just mine). It is humbling to see the talent and drive that is on display, and quite moving to see the support given by these professionals to our own ideas. The pronounced lack of egotism is a rarity. To see the delight in Richard's eyes & the excitement the team shows when a member makes a new contribution, it just kinda gives me hope in humanity.

 

While that is great, it does nothing to address the year's worth of other people asking about other areas to contribute.

Music. Check.
Models? Shaky at best, there is plenty of evidence here about a broken pipeline for submissions.
Textures? Same as above.
Coding? Zero entry point.
Tools? zero entry point.
Rigging? Zero entry point.
Lighting. Scene generation. Story generation. <insert anything of substance like making recipes> generation.

So, while I applaud the inroad you have with music, remaining content has a very long road to hoe for this project before that is close to really being what they want to call it: "crowd sourcing".

As for people complaining just to complain, sure, every project has them. Even team members do it. That is not the point here. It has been 12 months, almost to the day. If this was a 3 year project, that would mean 33% of development is done.

Its not even a 3 year project, so the "countdown" is getting closer to 50% given a DEC/Jan 2015 release.

Yet here there are a number of people, in the general and the DEV+ areas, that have asked for more about this project, and not because it is made in a box, like all other games, because we were told that this would be running different to how normal game development runs.

So far, that is little truth. It is still very much closed off in a box. The "deep dive" on combat yesterday was a shallow paddle over what we already knew about combat, general forums and DEV+ forums.

I am still here, hoping this gets better, that communication gets better. I have suggested numerous ways to accomplish that over the months, along with a host of other ideas for this project, with countless others. All that information is sitting here, in the forums.

People, who have been here for a year, get lumped into 2 categories: The complainer and the blind faithful. It is pretty accurate, there are far and few between middle road people, much like life.

Meanwhile, they, Port, are the ones who asked us to help make something with them, so, I don't feel anyone should have hesitations about letting them know, constructively, what could be better, espeically in regards to transparency or "crowd sourcing".

I hope people stop dismissing others because they dislike whomever's version of things without providing some counter argument of substance.

 

The lack of a pipeline for developer assets is highly recognizable. I can't speak to specifics, because I haven't attempted to submit anything, but I know that this issue has come up not infrequently in the dev+ forums. Dev+ pledgers have also been disappointed (myself included) about not being able to directly contribute to story, npcs and other aspects of development.

So I tried to ask myself why this is. We're disappointed not because of specific promises from Portalarium, but from the enormity of our dreams. We would each like to be able to contribute in different aspects of the game. Realistically, any such system takes not only infrastructure, but time and personal attention to implement. Either strict supervision, or a clear understanding of the mission by all involved must be in place.

Let's look at some examples of successful crowdsourcing in SotA:

1. The Poet's Circle - I think I first heard of Holt when the Bricks of the Avatar Minecraft server was launched. Later, there was a lot of talk by Mordecai and Om about in-game music, and Holt stepped in as leader again, incorporating development issues into his Bard's Guild. Btw, I just love the dual presence of the guild on both sides of the Moongate. Then we had the Hearts of Britannia Valentine's poetry contest. All of these events were orchestrated and fulfilled by the community with very little assistance other than a nod from Portalarium.
2. Rustic Dragon - Sure, Joseph is about the most ardent Ultima fan out there, but that doesn't distinguish him (no offense!) from a lot of other people on the internet He put his own money up to support a Telethon of the Avatar, which ended up bringing in way more money than he started with, as well as an incredible amount of enthusiasm. I don't have my virtue cards yet, but I'm still glowing over the fact of their existence. Goodwill abounds. Now he's working for Port and is the head liaison between the community and the development team (in tandem with our dear FireLotus).
3. theMadHermit started making housing tour videos. In a world where the majority of what we'd seen was houses, you'd think ppl would be sick of it. He let people who had not yet pledged experience the game and really see inside these houses. What he did was to organize the material - a huge problem we have faced in the ever-changing world of SotA. Then came the crafting tutorial. I like to look at these as 'apps' or 'mods', little programs that present information in a new order and increase accessibility.
4. COA - Adiun is a practiced herald. His talent and enthusiasm for the subject quickly brought in Sir Frank, who is a great organizing voice (I suspect he would make a talented administrator) in SotA, as well as Nirantae (who immediately established herself as a force for RP), Coren (always a strong contributor) and now others. They didn't wait for approval but just started making heraldry, (I think) prompted by Adiun's original arms. They went so overboard in creating heraldry for everyone, and also discussing the practicality of important arms into the game. Now they have the most advanced heraldry generator on the internet (imho). In a short time that statement will be indisputable. Now it looks likely we'll ALL get heraldry in-game in the near future, as they've come up with a practical integration strategy. They made their own pipeline.

I agree with you on many points Joviex, if not your sentiment. Remember though, that the development process will not be ending with the release of Ep.1. Can we apply the lessons of these successes to the issue of other assets? IMHO the biggest shortcoming of Shroud is the lack of organization. Therefore, it seems to me that the best thing to do would be to come up with a method for collecting potential material and presenting it in a manageable fashion to Portalarium. This would be no small task. Even UltimaCodex can't keep up with all the info that's coming out. We end up with MEGAposts and snippets - I know this has been a difficulty in explaining things to potential recruits or new backers. Thank the Virtues for our wonderful fan sites!

This forum has a ton of material. Would someone be interested in documenting genuine works in another place? I've been considering this task for several months, but I am just not up to it currently. Heck, I really enjoyed doing transcriptions, and would love to continue that project too - we've all got limited time, and sometimes we have to fall off the map for a little while. A project like this would take an organizational leader and 'departmental' heads. The thing is, there's no guarantee that Portalarium would incorporate these ideas. However, they'd probably be more likely to do so if they could easily access and review it. I'd like to state again that I haven't attempted to submit any graphical assets, for instance, but I know Bowen and ChaosAndOrder and Melchior and others have had successes in that area.

But to paraphrase Krishna: Do good work and don't be attached to results.

On Portalarium's end, we could use some communication on settings for stories and imagery. It seems like they've provided pretty good explanations on the technical aspects (vert counts, proportions, etc.) for 3d graphics. After seeing R4 (alas, not as much as I'd like), we're starting to get more information on the CURRENT story, quest styles, character personalities, and more. Anything Port could provide to springboard from would be great. A lot of us are scared to jump the gun with our contributions. We don't want to step on their toes.

I think Episode 1 will solidify the vision of New Britannia in a way that will provide a 'reality consensus' by immersion and thereby enhance the ability of community members to contribute appropriately with minimal supervision.

I'd also like to see a fan art gallery someplace. If we provide a space without the judgement of the forums, we'll see contributions come in. A showcase, if you will. The thing is, someone has to curate it.

How can we make the devs' job easier and facilitate faster, better, more efficient game development?

*cough* sorry if i missed some connecting points, i may come back and edit this. ULTIMA-tely, Joviex, my point is that I think we can overcome these difficulties, that I think Portalarium also wants to overcome them, and that while we lack some other infrastructure, we have a massive support system for making our dreams come true. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

 

The only thing I really worry about is that they say they want a great single player story akin to Ultima 7 but we haven't seen a lot of groundwork in that area. Sure we have seen a lot of MMO ideas put out there but there is a huge difference between MMO and a rpg experience. I'm hoping(faith in RG) that this won't feel like a tacked on bit.

 

to OP... Excellent post. I feel very much the same, as a backer of both SotA and Star Citizen. I will undoubtedly love both games, but there is just something special about Shroud of the Avatar. I have always felt this sort of romantic feeling for RG and his work (and the team he has built around him). This is no different. Quite special, indeed.

 

Cheers mate I appreciate your thoughts

 

I think this is more of a niche game than SC, now before you attack that, most modern MMOs have no risk associated with them, none. Maybe a slight time penalty, but other than that they cater to the lowest common denominator. Where from, what little I admittedly know of SOTA, this aims to cater to those who remember the "golden days" of MMOs where things had real penalties, loss of XP (hours or days of work erased by a bad pull), loss of item (can't get back to a corpse and lose a valuable item), etc.

I just watched the PvP and Death Deep Dive, which has pretty much sealed in that I plan on pledging when I can scrape together the funds for an adventurer package.

 

This is a nice thread indeed. However the combat system and PvP still have a lot of damage control needed, and if anybody in this thread feels positive about this game then let your enthusiasm help come up with a fix for combat and PvP.

As much as it feels good to think positively it would be nice if the reality follows suit. Regardless how positive people feel in this room there are some serious problems with the combat system, and the over structured PvP systems, and the devs need "real" "serious" feedback on during the upcoming releases. So really focus on testing the next few releases.

So feel happy and good that you pledged for SotA, but focus on giving good feedback on these systems when they become available, because I'm personally not convinced that the current combat situations are going to be successful come launch time. I'm not the only human that thinks this either. I'm at loss as to how to come up with a remedy for the combat system so you people who are excited and enthusiastic please step up and help SotA make it.