Wondering why they changed the runes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FanofIolo, Jan 24, 2015.

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  1. FanofIolo

    FanofIolo Avatar

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    I used to be able to read runic texts quite fluently in the old Ultima games, but I'm out of practice now, and some of the runes have been switched to represent different letters. Has there been information posted on why this was done? (Not complaining, just curious.)
     
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  2. Sir_Hemlock

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    RG changed a couple. All is well, very minimal and still very easy. Someone will be able to post you a copy of the new runic if you ask.

    Regards,
     
  3. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

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    Richard wanted ALL the runes to represent a single letter. I forget the precise explanation he gave as it was a very long time ago. I think around the time Dame Lori made the font.
     
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  4. FanofIolo

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    No need, the new alphabet is readily available as are the wonderful fonts by Dame Lori (thank you, Dame Lori!) and Sir Frank (thank you, Sir Frank!). I was just wondering why some of the runes had been changed.

    Comparison old and new runes
     
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  5. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I'm guessing for two reasons.

    1. To differentiate this from IP owned by EA
    2. To make the runes easier and more accessible to new players.
     
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  6. Spoon

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    ...and the double letter to single runic isn't easy for auto parsing.
     
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  7. redfish

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    Actually, it's pretty easy with modern fonts.. OpenType has ligature support.. If you add ligatures to your font, the app as long as it supports it (Word, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc all do, I'm sure Unity through C# does) will automatically convert double characters to a single character.

    And then when you change to a standard Latin font from runic, it will be back in double characters.
     
  8. Spoon

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    True. Especially if they are going for translations into French and Chinese. Wonders how they will solve runic in foreign languages.
     
  9. Roper Docholiday

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  10. Tahru

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    I did not look into the details of the old system, but someone mentioned double letter symbols. I wonder if that is synonymous with the letter press where there is a different type for some double letters, like two ff's.
     
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  11. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    In the old system there was a rune for ST, TH, EA, etc.
     
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  12. smack

    smack Avatar

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    I'll add #3 based on what Richard said in a Hangout when he revealed the new runes:

    3. With a 1:1 mapping, it makes it easy to convert between the English alphabet and runic, both manually and programmatically.
     
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  13. Tahru

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    Ok, a letter press type set is organized like this, which does not include st or th.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    To me the most important point was that the old set of runes used was not the same as futhark (hmm, futhorc perhaps), but now it is (or at least closer). Previously there was mistakes. IIRC, that's been fixed now.
     
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  15. Mata

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    @Kara
    Wenn du etwas üben möchtest, dann kann ich dir diese Seite empfehlen. ;)
    http://www.newbritannia.info/Fun/Fun.php
     
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  16. FanofIolo

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    Danke, Mata! :)
     
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  17. redfish

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    Yes those are called ligatures. (converting two f's to ff)

    In fact, I've made Britannian rune fonts with ligatures before. You make an "E" rune and an "A" rune, and then put an "EA" rune somewhere in the character set, with an instruction saying when "EA" is typed out, replace the "E" and "A" runes with the "EA" rune. Apps will still recognize it both E and A letters as being there, while still showing a different representation. So when you convert it back to a Latin font, it will read "EA". Its not difficult to do.

    In Word -- for instance -- to make sure ligatures are being used, you go into Font properties, the Advanced tab, and there's a combobox for Ligatures -- select "All".

    I prefer runes representing double letters, because it fits the runic style better.
     
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  18. Alfric Jodoc

    Alfric Jodoc Avatar

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    IIRC, based off one of the various video interviews Richard participated in, he did want to craft a phonetically-based writing system where letters exactly mapped to specific phonemes, and phonemes related to one another (like a voiceless f versus the voiced v) would have letters similar in appearance but with minor changes to indicated that said phoneme was the voiced rather than voiceless variety, and so on; something he was able to do a bit with Gargish, I think he mentioned.

    The 1-to-1 mapping with the NB rune set makes things much, much faster, especially since we're dealing with a language that has all sorts of spelling irregularities and other not-so-neat bits due to years upon decades upon centuries of borrowing, adapting, merging, changing, and overall growth of a living, breathing communication medium known as the modern English language.

    If I had my preference, I'd stick with the phoneme-based runes such as the thorn for the soft/voiceless th (as in "this"), and other runes for other common one-sound-represented-by-two-letters-in-English-instances/digraphs such as sh, ch, zh (as in the sound in "vision"), qu, ng, the hard/voiced th (as in "these"). Then again, this could make the Runic alphabet ridiculously long due to the sheer number of digraphs/trigraphs/etc. present in English, especially thanks to borrowed words or "odd" spelling: the Spanish ll ("tortilla") versus the Welsh ll or hl (a properly Welsh-intoned "Lloyd"), the Greek ph (phone), good old wh ("what," "when," "why," "whale," "whip"), the ght thanks to Old English ("knight," "night," "light"), much less the kn of "knight" or the gn or "gnome," and a whole other mess of possibilities.

    And don't get me started on diphthongs, ala ai ("aye," "I," "why"), ou ("ow"), oi ("loin," "oy!"), or vowel digraphs like au ("dour," "sour," "Sauron"), oo ("moon," "loon"), ee ("meet," "lean"), etc.

    I can live with NB lacking the thorn rune or the ing rune (those OB used ing for ee instead of ng); it'd make for quick decoding.

    Now with my D&D tabletop players, they're gonna have their work cut out for them. The rune set I'm using goes over the 26 mark, and does cover a few pesky digraphs.
     
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  19. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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  20. no_excuses_its_released

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    Pagans still practicing Norse spirituality complained that it was too close to their runes and therefore an insult to their religion. ;-)
     
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