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Working Moondial Fan Project

Discussion in 'Player Created Resources' started by Cora Cuz'avich, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    This conversation started in another thread, but it was taking over, so I began a new thread.

    Basic idea is to try and design a working physical moondial. I think it can be done, but it would not resemble the models in game. Mostly due to all of the gearing and mechanical bits required to make things move. Most of the parts would be 3D printed. (I'd love to the machine the parts, but I don't currently have access to a machine shop.)

    Probably, it would still have a ring with the months/constellations. The moons/planets (Are they really planets if they orbit another planet rather than a sun?) would move around the central planet, and the entire system would itself rotate on the base, such that a fixed indicator would point to the "current" month. The individual moons would likely not rotate themselves. (It can be done, but I'm not quite that insane.) (Yet.)

    The main issues I would have to work out are:
    • the gear ratios (not too tough, especially if I cheat and throw some chain drives in there)
    • how to indicate the year, as I presume that the alignment of moons in January of 505 is not necessarily the same as January of 506. (If they are, that makes this waaay easier.) I know that early in development, everything reset every year, but I believe that is no longer the case. (@Bowen Bloodgood?) Probably, given how quickly years pass in game, I would have to determine a complete planetary cycle, and accurately setting the dial would involve cranking it forward X years from a known point in time.
    • how to indicate which constellations are above the horizon. I think I have an idea for that which is pretty simple, but i need to learn the astronomy a bit better to verify it.
    • how to prevent Portalarium from ever changing the astronomy if/after I make this thing ;)
     
  2. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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  3. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Doing some preliminary work, one thing that makes this much easier than a "real" orrery is that all periods are a multiple of 1 day, so I don't have to deal with fractions of orbits.

    The hard part is figuring out how to make it so you can set it to the current date, so that it could actually be used to predict sieges and what not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
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  4. 3devious

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    You should try to make it as flexible as possible or wait until after the dust settles from the launch candidate. You have been here long enough to have seen how sudden and important changes get made sometimes screwing people over royaly and all you will get in the end is an "I'm sorry." I'd hate to see something potentially so cool go out with a whimper. I don't mean to sound like the typical Kickstarter backer but I have to say that the idea is so awesome that I'll support it, take as long as you need to work out the logistics of it.
     
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Well, I can't really work on it in earnest until April-ish. I have some personal projects that need to be finished around end of March, and are going to take up a lot of time until then. Probably the furthest I will get before then is some rough 3d models to get the mechanism/gear train down. That's the easy part, though.
     
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  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    The last full planetary alignment occurred at the Cataclysm.. Midnight, Jan 1st, year 0 on the NB calendar and yes they fixed the reset issue with the sky.
     
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  7. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Well, that makes things about a bazillion times easier.
     
  8. Cora Cuz'avich

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    A few (more) questions @Bowen Bloodgood (sorry to bug you so much)

    1. I'm assuming the moon phases for lunar rifts are based on Daedalus?
    2. The chaos/order constellations don't affect sieges currently?
    3. Seven constellations are above the horizon (and thus potentially affecting sieges) at any time?
     
  9. Bowen Bloodgood

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    1: Correct
    2: Also Correct
    3: There are a total of 11 constellations that affect sieges and presently are not required to be above the horizon. The siege occurs when a planet passes by (relatively speaking) any one of those constellations. The planet is the cabalist in question and the constellation is the location.
     
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Huh, somehow I had it in my head that the constellation had to be visible in the sky for a siege to happen. That's one less function to deal with, then.

    And I just realized, the moon phases aren't tied to actual astronomy; they're running on their own timer.
     
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Might have a rough mockup modeled this weekend. It probably won't have any gearing yet, but just be a rough idea of what I think it will look like. (It wall almost surely change a lot once I start actually designing the mechanism, but i need to start somewhere. It will be some sort of base which contains the gearing. The top face of the base will have a large hole cut out of the center; there'll be a fair amount of space around the hole. Around the perimeter of the hole will be the months/constellations/cities. In the center of the hole will be a sphere representing New Britannia, and around that, the moon/planets will revolve, as well as an indicator that aligns with the months on the perimeter of the hole to indicate the month. The planets may actually rotate as they revolve- I know roughly how to do it, it'll really come down to how big the entire thing turns out, and whether or not there's room to fit the additional mechanisms. Around the base on the upper face will be a number of additional dials. One will indicate the current year (probably millennial, so it counts up to 999 then rolls over to 0). One will indicate the moon phase. It might just be a little half white/half black sphere that rotates in a hole, like the one on the Antikythera mechanism, or it might be just a rotating pointer that points to a symbol. I like the simplicity of the former, but the latter will be more useful, since I can include not only the symbol for the lunar phase, but the lunar rift name as well. I was going to have a third dial to indicate the horizon, but after Bowen's last post, it seems unnecessary.

    I was also thinking about automating it, but that's a whole other can of worms. It technically wouldn't be that difficult; I'd just have to install a motor and the necessary reduction gears to control the speed, but having it remain accurate over the long term is likely a big problem. It wouldn't really be worth the effort to do it if I just end up with a device that's never correct. Ac lock spring would be awesome, but that turns the project into something that I could maybe make in a few months in my spare time to something that would take years.
     
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  12. Bowen Bloodgood

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    It used to work that way for awhile.. then I guess Richard decided that was a bug.
     
  13. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Didn't quite get to it this weekend. I actually started some design work Friday on my lunch break, but forgot to copy the files to a thumb drive at the end of the day, and really didn't want to start over.
     
  14. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Is the order in this image (left->right = innermost->outermost)? Or are the planets just laid out that way to correspond to the order of the consteallations?

    And Daedalus orbits closest to NB? (I know I can check later tonight when I get home from work by looking at a moondial in game, but I want to do some more work on my lunchbreak today.)

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

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  16. Cora Cuz'avich

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  17. Hemswal The Descended

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    @Cora Cuz'avich I would be willing to help you model, 3d print, and/or machine this project. I can cut things in wood on my shapeoko, have access to an industrial size cnc machine (that's used primarily for wood) and 2 large scale laser cutters (laser cutter probably wins for this project). I have 4 3d printers within 50 feet of my desk, scattered throughout my house and shop.. lol

    I can print in ABS, PLA, PETG, and Nylon. PETG probably being the best material choice for something with moving part imo.

    Send me a message :)
     
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  18. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Thanks for the offer, but I got this.
     
  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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  20. Hemswal The Descended

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    Best of luck. I look forward to seeing the end product. :)