World Maps: The Minimum Expectations of 21st Century RPGS

I don't think he's suggesting all 5 episodes add up to 40 hrs, but that each episode is around 40 hrs. That's not an unusual amount of time in a single player game.

And it's especially not unusual if there is another sort of game to be experienced on the MMO side of things. All told, it sounds about right, to me.

 

Guys

I've asked why there is no Overland Map/Maps forum category in the 'game features' section of the forum, all the other game features are there; however, maps have been completely left out with nowhere to discuss them.
If you like me feel that we urgently need to discuss this essential game feature then please visit the thread and also ask why there is no section for the Overland Map.
thanks


here is the link

Also, I suppose here is where the developers got their inspiration for the new paper version:
link
Great as a cloth map that comes with the boxed game but as the Overland Map? unless it is zoomable into the game world and heavily detailed with animations...nah.

 

Hmm That map isn't new, it's been around since the launch, and one can clearly see that's where the style for the OM if from. Honestly that's exactly what I thought of when I saw the current version of the OM.

ALSO, can anyone else mark out where this "Vale" we've been on is on the large map? I'm not seeing anything that resembles the landscape and town layout that we've been shown...

 

Top right corner of this map, there is an arrow pointing off the edge, referring to the "Hidden Vale" : https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/updated-map-with-jigsaw-pieces.3898/

 

Ah yes, thanks. So in other words we won't be using it in the actual game.... LOL I kid.

 

Yes, when I first saw that it was not part of the Novia map, my initial thought was that it is intended as a Tutorial : Some place where users are dropped off initially to get their bearings, after which you are sent to the mainland.

Not sure how player housing works in either case, though I gather one can return to the island at any time you wish.

 

I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the thread already (I didn't read every post), but does anyone remember the 2006-ish expansion game for Neverwinter Nights 2? I think it was called Storm of Zentir or something like that... Anyways, that game's style was similar to SoTA, in that it had overland exploration/travel with instanced towns, encounters, random events, etc. There were random & fixed encounters, and you could "see" monsters wandering the map, along with hidden locations based on your character's search, wilderness, and other skills - things like swamp vs. grassland movement speed, or chance of getting ambushed were all tied to your party's related skill set... If anyone else has ever played this game, it would be nice to hear some other feedback. This type of map seems like it would be awesome for SoTA.

 

Yup I agree,

3 scale map ftw !!!

 

The devs said in one of these map threads (there are so many I can't remember which is which) that they can't afford to do a 3 scale map. That's not going to happen.

The best we can hope for is to sway them back to the original vision and I think (based on the lack of dev feedback and RG's statements about the map on some of the deep dives) that even that chance is slim.

I think, the devs are under the impression that we just haven't given the paper map enough of a chance and that it will grow on us.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that is the case. I understand the potential that the paper map has. I really get it. But I still hate the art direction and it's immersion breaking nature. Sure it can be made pretty advanced with lots of cool effects, but it's always going to be the "wrong" decision for me.

My fear is, that their belief that we just need to give it time will cause them to put so much work into it, that there will be no going back, once they see that it won't grow on us. It's frustrating situation.

 

Absolutely... What did RG say about the map in one of the deep dives? Seems that I missed it...

 

I don't remember the wording. They were kind of sidetracking, but the gist was that the new map was a better direction and we probably just needed time to adjust it.

I got the impression that they think we were simply dismissing it out of hand because it was different.

For some that's true, but I've given this a great deal of thought. I do understand the potential for the pop-up paper map. I even think it's a really stunning visual effect if done right. I just don't want it in this game. It doesn't fit imo.

I want to say it was either in the single player offline or yesterday's anniversary celebration when they were talking about how the game had changed since kickstarter.

I listened to a bunch of the darn things while my hands did mindless work yesterday. It's all a jumble.

 

Yeah, it doesn't fit. I showed it to a friend and he thought that it looked like two totally different games. He liked the art though but he said that it didn't fit into the game as it was such a radically difference in style and gameplay. He tought that it would be great for a strategy game but not for an RPG in which you want to explore a world. He also said that it could work as a fast travel-system.

And I agree with you. I think the devs want to keep this map no matter what. They will work on it and then they will say that they put so much work into it that it will not be feasible to go back to the old view anymore. Mark my words.

 

It's funny how Lord British was selling the dual scale to us at the start (as opposed to the monoscale similar to UO style) by saying stuff like, - and please forgive I am paraphasing from memory here -

"if for example we wish to make a volcano active or similar natural disaster it requires much less programming than a monoscale map because we can simply swap out a hex with a new tile"

That to me seems totally unbelievable with a paper map system. So what we are all supposed to get magical paper maps that magically change when new events are added to hexs? or has portalarium decided to now do away with this "swapping of hexes" as another design change. It would seem if the latter were the case then the team should never had suggested this at the start as this was the "selling point" to the dual scale system.

 

Yeah that is my worry too. I mean sure they could probably get it so that the current map does look good but the style just does not fit the game. You travel around a hex leave the hex and then suddenly its like you somehow got transported to a completely different game. I know they have said they have not given up completely on the original 3d map, but I think that once they take the time to really spruce up the current map there just won't be enough time to go back to the original map. I hope we are wrong though,

 

How would it not be easy for them?? They have been using a hex grid system on BOTH versions of the OM, so with something like a natural disaster or a meteor strike or some special event they can easily swap out an individual hex for one with the special event happening in it. Why would it seem unbelievable on a paper map but not on the 3D map? If you hear of an event happening while you're in town you wouldn't mark it down on your map to go find out what's there?

That does bring up a question though... How do we find out about these events, do they just suddenly appear on our maps and if we're observant we'll see them, or will they be something that we'd have to hear about and investigate to find them? One or the other, a little of both... ??
But that's probably something to ask in a separate thread.

 

Yeah. This is why (imo) the devs discount our complaints, because a good portion don't understand that the paper map is just as versatile. You can have animated cut-out animals and dragons, weather effects, animated volcanoes, wind in paper cut-out trees, animated waves in the ocean. You can do a lot. And it could look really cool.

Myself and others like me understand that. We still don't want it in our game. It is a wildly different style which evokes a different gaming environment, no matter how amazing you make it. But when people automatically discount it because none of those features are live yet, or because they think it looks like "a child's drawing," it only hurts our argument. The devs see it as people not understanding their vision, rather than having a legitimate complaint about how it changes the feel of the game.

Only by making it clear to the devs that we DO understand what the paper map is capable of, but still find it off-putting and immersion-breaking compared to the alternative, do I believe we have a chance to change their minds.

 

I'm sure the paper map can be every bit as versatile as the 3d one. It's just many of us (if not most) have a serious problem with the art direction of it. Sure, we all get that it's supposed to look like the cloth/paper map for the game. It's still jarring and inconsistent with the rest of the game. We haven't seen the polish and animations they intend on putting on it yet.. but I still have a hard time believing it will ever be anything other than an immersion breaking map.

 

This is exactly how I feel. It's frankly a little insulting at this point that nearly two weeks after the release, after all the post-mortems and hours and hours of dev chats, they still haven't responded to any of the well-thought-out, valid criticisms except to condescendingly act like the critics just don't get it and to insist that the only problem with the map is its unpolished state.

It's really frustrating because if they were truly open-minded about going back to the old style, they'd put it in R5 and ask players how they feel about it. If it was really a last-minute decision to change to the new map, then the old one should be in a near-playable state and require very little effort to put back. It seems like they're already committed though and don't really want to hear that feedback, which is disappointing because this is a quintessential example of reaching a crossroads early in development and being able to listen to the community instead of stubbornly going down the wrong path.

 

This paper map is utterly disapointing. And for those that claim its like a story-book map, well, they also come with colored detailed maps more often than not, just sayin'.

 

Will it have wandering monsters on it or any other type of animation? 'Cos that seems kind of cheesy if it won't.