World Maps: The Minimum Expectations of 21st Century RPGS

^This^

The new map type could be used for in hexes when you want to look at a paper map to see where in the hex you are, It would/could only show where you have been to, so you can't use it as a cheat but you would at least know if you were close to the edge

 

That's disappointing to hear.

(And probably explains why you're so surprised by the reaction.)

 

Totally with you on this. Making it look like an old map was awesome, but maybe introducing it by surprise without an announcement and not quite finished was too much for people

 

Chris said,

At this point I think for the sake of investors and fans we urgently need a definitive answer on whether the developers plan to keep this travesty of a world map.

 

I thought the new map travel concept was good. I was expecting to see the prototype we had seen before, but it didn't bother me as I always thought of the overworld map as a travel mechanism only. I think that it'll look neat once there will be more different hexes and visual cues. I also like the idea of having your coat of arms to present you in the overworld map.

I think the most important thing to me about the map is that I'll feel actually like I'm reading a map, after this weekends testing I would vote for the newer concept. I can't have a birds eye view in real life either so I'm totally fine with a map. Also, like Chris said we'll be spending so little time in the map mode anyway.

 

A third person view is also not possible in real life

 

The new WM (world map) LOOKS so clunky, it would be different if the resolution was far higher and fully detailed but it isn't, I can understand that the detail could come later as long as that was before release but the graphics looks so well primitive more reflective of an early 1908's game rather than a cutting edge 21st century rpg.
And its not a nostalgic look either but honest to god awful mess of a child's first drawing.

This is what we were promised:

 

Got to say, I agree with Rune_74. The subject line of your two threads comes across as an inference that, because they are things you have to suggest (ie: they are things things that aren't in the game), that you are in turn calling out the current game systems for not being in the 21st century. Otherwise, a subject line along the lines of, "World Maps: My Minimum Expectations" (and zero mention of the 21st century), would have totally sufficed instead, wouldn't it...?

 

I think you've nailed it. I mean, the look of the thing can (albeit it with some effort) be changed so I'm somewhat indifferent to the color and artwork this early on. Its the function of the map which disturbs me greatly.

I knew we weren't getting the one thing which for a great many of us single handedly defined a RG world: 1:1 persistent world, but I thought we've come this far with him lets wait and see how this plays out.

Well, even this little slice of New Britannia doesn't feel like a cohesive world at all. Rather, it is nothing more than a collection of little, completely isolated, and in many cases redundant, hexes. Take for example the four cities/towns: there is absolutely no spacial relation between them. I don't "feel" like Owls head is any where in particular because its completely isolated from everything around it. In other words if you took the cities we have, and put them adjacent to each other on the map, in terms of game play, that would be no different than where they are now. There is no relation between them. To get from one to the other (moongate notwithstanding) you go to the edge of one, you switch to map, click on the one you want to go to and, after a minute of watching a little flag slide around, you are there.

Honestly, if you showed me an Excel sheet of places instead of the map that would be about as immersive and believable a world as we have now. Seriously. Right now the world map can be summed up, and indeed feels like nothing more than the following menu:

Towns:

• Owl's Head
• Braemar
• King's Port
• Etc

Wilderness:

• Hills1, Hills2, Hill3, etc
• Forest1, Forest2, Forest 3, etc
• Open Road1, Open Road2, OpenRoad3, etc.

Dugeon/Areas of Interest

• Skull Dungeon
• Res Sash Cave
• Etc

 

But that's because that's all there is on it at present. I believe the goal is to have basically every hex filled with something visual, over time, and clicking on each hex will open a unique instance of that hex.

I realise it's not the same as a 1:1 landscape that you can just go walking across, but it still means that -- when the game comes out -- there will be a ton of stuff, equivalent to 1:1 landscape... you just access it differently.

 

I cannot imagine that every hex will get a unique area. I believe there are hundreds if not thousands of hexes on the map that had to be unique and then there would be the next continent with about the same amount of hexes a year later. I doubt that they have the time and budget to make every hex unique.

 

By 'unique instance' I meant a hex that I could be walking through, and could do something in (like kill the Big Bad), but you wouldn't be in until you went there and opened your own unique instance of that hex.

 

Great, so there will be Forest1, Forest2, Forest3, Hill1, Hills2, Hills3 ...Hills 285. Doesn't change my point.

 

Yeah I think most hexes will look similar based on what type of hex they are. For instance most forest hexes will probably look mostly the same more desert hexes will likely look mostly the same and so on. Of course there will be some unique hexes but I just don't see how with the time and budget they have it would be possible to make every hex truly unique.

 

But... that's what a 1:1 landscape is too. I'm struggling to see where the disconnect is here, aside from the way in which you access the content.

EG: If I'm in a traditional theme park MMO and decide I want to visit the forest to my South (and presuming there's no way to fast-travel to it, or near it), I start running -- or riding -- towards it... moving through areas I couldn't give two figs about, because where I want to be, and what I want to do, is in that forest to my South. In the SotA model, moving through areas I couldn't give two figs about is suddenly quicker and more interesting. I like that.

 

Quicker, yes. More interesting?!?

Did you play any of RG's choice titles? The often lengthy time it takes to walk from point A/B is critical to making the world believable, not to mention perils and discovery along the way. Forces you to think about and plan your travels instead of zipping all over the place at will. In order to keep things somewhat manageable moongates were implemented but there were always only a fixed number strategically placed (and traditionally it would take a lot of time, cheats notwithstanding, just to figure them out). But I digress.

I'm not here to debate the team's choice of world structure, which is set in stone, rather to express my view that the map fails to mask that choice, fails to make me feel like there is a cohesive world under it.

 

I'm 38 years old. Not only have I played many of RGs titles, I've played a lot of RPGs in general, online and tabletop over the last 28 years or so. All have had their own special needs and requirements.

And here, those special needs and requirements aren't those of a single-player RPG only. With the added MMO element, there will be a LOT more travelling back and forth in SotA than a single player game.

As such, it seems obvious to me why the team is building in this kind of travel. Naturally, I'm not on the team, so I can't say that with 100% certainty, but I would be shocked if it wasn't related to the MMO side of things.

 

My biggest issue is, that at the moment when I want to travel from instance to instance I always have to see this map. I won't explore a instance for more then 30min, so I have an immersion break every 30min. I was on this overlandmap for around 30% of my time because of bugs, but this map is really a break. If it really only for travel then give me a drop down menu, it will have the same effect and the same immersion break. For me the overlandmap should feel like zomming out and in, not point with the finger on a map and where I lift of my finger there I will be back in the game.

 

Exactly, couldn't put it better myself.
You know it may be that some subscribers have forgotten the Ultima game-world mechanics, exploration via the believable, detailed and most of all interesting world map was central to game-play.

Sindariya said:

Incremental zoom is essential to the World Map system.
When the developers mentioned a two-tier World Map I thought they meant the world map was a zoomed out depiction of the game world not some awful child's idea of a map.

 

Precisely what I said.