World Maps: The Minimum Expectations of 21st Century RPGS

this is a birds eye view in a very stylized manner.... we see typographical elements, cities, and other elements of the region... the only difference is we dont see mobs or animated water, animated lava, a humanoid figure for us, etc... those elements could still be in the worlds.... will there be auto going into a hex because of a forced encounter like combat like in U5 when a mob got to you and you couldnt get away... we dont know yet.... this is why i want posts from the devs before I jump forward in judging and laying down what i think is right or wrong in what they did in making this move in regards to the overworld/large scale map.

 

this is not a bird's eye view, this is an overhead view of a paper map. A bird's eye view means just that, equivalent to what a bird would see flying over the hexes. like i said, even if its dressed up, it still won't feel like an ultima dual scale map.

 

Actually we do. Quoting DarkStarr:

"So we took inspiration from the Game of Thrones intro and decided to go for an Ultima / paper / cloth take on that idea. Over time we want to add animations like waves (ala stage play backdrops), turning windmills, flowing water, volcanos and under siege cities with fluttery papery fire, etc. We also want to experiment with having the trees, towns, mountains, etc. fold open ala a pop up book as part of a transition animation of some kind of opening the magical map.
Long term we plan other features like pan, zoom, fog of war, etc. to make the whole thing more of a valuable tool. We also want to experiment with different ways for you to enter a hex (current double click feels odd). Also the banner will have your coat of arms on it. We also want to maybe show your party members on the map in real time somehow and maybe pins marking guild mates, kindred, friends, etc. (as a toggle). Hex lines we either want to toggle or make them match the illustration style vs the current 3D projection. I realize this is a big change from the original direction but we all feel that there is a lot of promise in this new idea. Thank you for the feedback to date."

I draw your attention to his closing remark. I myself have not seen any bashing. I have seen what I guess you call judging, and I think that's called for as there is no way to share an opinion on something until you first pass judgement on it for yourself. And (so far) I think the opinions shared have been accompanied by fairly decent supporting comments.

 

I was surprised by the R4 map this weekend, but I wasn't upset. I thought it was just a placeholder for the zoomed out 3D over world that we saw in the videos others have posted. No?

 

No, ChadRiden. That's what a lot of people thought, including myself. It's been confirmed by DarkStarr that the overhead map in R4 is the new direction they decided to take.

When most people mistake it for a place holder..it's time to rethink your new direction.

 

My feelings for not liking the new map are that this stylized map doesn't give me the feeling of roaming around in a world. It looks like a map. I do not see a living world, I see a paper map.
I want to travel through lush forests, birds flying in the sky. I want to follow a stream and see some deer roaming around. I want to wander through misty swamps, see a tower and get excited to explore it. I want to get the feeling of traveling through a world that feels and looks alive. The stylized paper map doesn't give me the feeling of this lush world that looks and feels alive. Every time I see this map, it is nothing more than a map for me.

As we will only be able to explore this world in detail in pieces as you have to enter the hexes and then just get one area, wandering around in the overland view is the only means to explore the world in it's entirety and seamlessly. And I want this to be as immersive as possible, giving me the feeling of really walking around in a living world full of lush forests, animals, meadows, mountains etc. The new stylized map didn't made me feel this way. I never felt like being in this world, I felt like looking at a map.

 

Best quote on forum.

That's right get the pitchforks and torches out, I thought this was a feedback forum, for my mind we're giving them exactly that.
Regarding repetition, I believe that's unfair, I stated my case; the rest of my comments are responding to what other people have written in response on this forum.

 

this is exactly the kind of details I wanted to see... it helps me understand what your feelings are and help give me the kind of details that help me as I write my article for UC.... thanks for giving more details... I can understand your feelings and the vision you have.... it is one that I am sure many in our community have. TY

 

I think we are going to agree to disagree on this one pal.... i know we tend to agree on many things but maybe it is just my bias towards hyperstylized art style being used to design a map or birds eye view of a world.... if it was just an overhead view of a map, i think of more like the map in Skyrim or Fallout 3....

 

I'd rather go back to the 3D map unless this one improves by several orders of magnitude. A GoT into style map would be cool, but we got some kids self made pop-up book instead. It'd be nice to be able to zoom out more so we can see the whole map too. What would be neat would be to have the area you can see "live" be in 3D and distant areas be shown as a (better quality then R4) 2D map. Undiscovered areas could be blank, or just have major features revealed.

 

I like the map and find no issue with it. It's good to have feedback and opinions, but in the scheme of things this is overall a minor issue. I'm sure there will be some changes/improvements anyway.

 

I thought it was a place holder as well, just to give people a way to zone to their next destination. If that was their "current thinking" then my own "current thinking" says that they need to rethink.

 

Completely agree. The overland map has always been my biggest concern with this project. I wanted to like the game so much that I pushed myself to just deal with it and "see where it goes." It has taken a rather ugly turn. I don't really want the overland map to ONLY be a quick travel mechanic. I need to feel the journey from LB's castle to the equivalent of Minoc (I know there will be no "Minoc", just whatever town will be in that vicinity) will have some danger and/or intrigue. There is no danger or intrigue in the overland map. I suppose none of this matters if you can go from one town to the next without seeing the overland map, but it does not seem like that will ever really be the case.

 

Yes, how can a paper map arouse the feeling of adventure and danger while wandering across a world? I hope that they bring back the old system.

 

Okay, I believe that this discussion be moved to the general 'Game Features' forum because the news that the R4 map is the map will have a huge impact for many investors/fans, my thoughts are that we ask politely that the discussion be moved there as we've been told the child's drawing of a map aka 'SoTA World Map' is the final iteration.

 

Do you mean Darstarrs posting or has there been new information from the developers regarding the map?

 

Darkstarr's original post, I believe that for many people the R4 iteration of the World Map could be a potential game-breaker and as the devs suggest that this is the game map then we need to place this conversation in 'Game Features' or a similar category as it has gone from being an R4 issue to a general game issue.

 

The new overhead map is complete and utter rubbish, how can the Devs possibly look at what they were originally offering us, then look at the piece of crap we have now and think omg that looks way better. I have a lot of respect for the devs on a small budget because what they have done so far looks great, but this map looks like a quick sketch someone came up with over a pint of beer at a pub. When i first saw it i too thought it was just a test map, then when i realised it wasnt i thought omfg who sanctioned this decision. I know they say they are going to make changes to it, but you cant polish a turd no matter how much you try.

 

Somehow the map reminds me of a browsergame...

 

See, there's the problem, all that "feeling of adventure and danger" can be implemented on this new version of the map once things that Starr himself stated were in the works, but you're not even giving them the chance to take if from a rough last minute placement.
Why can't you explore? In the 3 month video that you're fond of did it show that there were spiders in the area where LB went in the trees to look for lumber? Did the Overhead Map (OM) show that it was such a rocky terrain?
All it showed was that he was entering a forested hex.
If it's a case of being able to see everything on the OM would the implementation of a fog of war/exploration be suffice enough to lessen this?
In the case of seeing things animated on the map, such as waves crashing on the shore, rivers running towards the sea, flocks of birds flying in the sky, etc., giving a sense of a living world, is it not possible to add features like this?
As for our Avatars, I do see this as something that both you and I agree on, it needs to better represent our avatars not just look like a chess piece on a playing board. But this could easily be changed, it's just an art asset the mechanics would be the same. Why not a combination of the two styles? They want to show our Arms we create for the game, which I like the idea of, so why not an avatar figure carrying a banner with our Arms?
Hell, just removing the hex grid itself changes the feel of the map quite a bit...



So what would it look like once they add a fog of war?



That doesn't make you want to explore what's underneath that white area to see what's there? Can you see where I'm going with all of this?

Yes, the art is in a roughed-out stage. There are still a lot of other aspects of the game that have the same issue.