Worthwhile Dungeon loot

To me, the thrill of dungeon crawling, is getting to the end of the dungeon and finding a worthwhile reward for the time and effort it takes to get there. In this game, there is no reason to do dungeons, except for quest progression. Every single dungeon, puzzle chest and so on that I have encountered, has the same worthless loot. I realize that the intention is to keep crafting alive, and have player made items be the best, but unfortunately, the drawback from that is boring content. What's the point of even putting in dungeons and or puzzles if there is no reward? Not even a named mob, not anything. It just all seems pointless. I love the aspect of the game. I am really enjoying the playability, but to play a game for hours exploring, and finding nothing, just seems pointless. I am unsure if the devs even look at these posts, but here's to hoping that they do! Cheers...

Amrynn Aethyrborn

 

But... spatulas!

 

Agree

 

Except it's not actually true tho. Every once in a while you get stuff like yellow supply bundles, which can contain things like player crafted swords that are actually good.

Malefic Liches drop rare lich helms. Cabalists drop rare things, as do unicorns, phoenixes, dragons and other boss creatures. I got some rare rings a few times, that players think are worth 40,000 GP. Off bandits in a random encounter.

Yes, the vast majority of loot is destined for wood scrap or metal scrap, but it's that rare stuff that you do get that makes you keep going.

The game can't be handing out stuff like candy to everyone, it has to be rare, meaning 1 percent of the time you actually get something good.

 

The problem with "end loot" is that it gets farmed, which throws things out of wack.

I do agree (completely) that fighting a really tough NPC, defeating it, looting it only to find 5gold, an apple, a haste potion, a worn cloak and a ceramic jar SUCKS....big time.
There should be SOMETHING of value, always, on those guys. Not necessarily a Sword +10 and the like. Perhaps a key to a chest that's lootable once per player per 12/24 hour time period; and inside that chest are better items (ie, always 1 Supply Bundle, or always 1 Recipe, etc) that are not subject to the NPC dismal loot table. I know the game has timers on chests to respawn their loot. I know the game has the ability to repopulate a chest each time a new player opens it.

 

Agree
I killed over three hundred cabalists before I saw my first drop of a weapon or hood.
That's boss level monsters with 8k hp that could easily kill me, that only spawn after clearing a siege, which only occur during certain times.
In that time, I got two orange bundles. Orange! One had a couple of gems and some useless food. In the other, I kid you not, I got a piece of cake and a map of ardoris and that was it. I nearly ragequit.

Most of the cabalists dropped a single reagent, and like <10 gold. Once or twice I got a crappy artifact of the 'crush it for essence' variety. Most of the time, I got <50g worth of combined total loot. From a boss.

In most games, you see a boss, or a mob with a special name, its like yeahhh kill it. In this game, its like "eh, avoid, why bother." The only people who are getting boss loot are the people who can steamroll bosses in record time - and do so repeatedly for hours on end - and that's the reason why the drop rates have to be crap, because if it dropped something good every time then those folks would flood the market more than it already is with such items.

I've long suggested tying loot to a 'first kill of the day/week/month' you are guaranteed to get something, and thereafter it reverts to regular drop rates. Perhaps using the quest flag system or such like. There is no reason for a group of people who can't solo a dragon to group up and try to take 1 down, probably dying in the process, to get 200g worth of crap to split among them. Its absolutely pointless. Either that or make it so everyone gets their 'own' loot when taking down such targets, perhaps via a chest that spawns when they die, and make cooldown on chest take however long.

 

Perhaps using the quest flag system or such like. There is no reason for a group of people who can't solo a dragon to group up and try to take 1 down, probably dying in the process, to get 200g worth of crap to split among them. Its absolutely pointless. Either that or make it so everyone gets their 'own' loot when taking down such targets, perhaps via a chest that spawns when they die, and make cooldown on chest take however long.

Yes this would work. I am definitely not asking for handouts by any means. Dungeon expiration timers, loot flags, and so on would work to potentially ward off farming. My frustration is, is that you spend a ton of time, working your way through an objective, a hard mob, a puzzle, a siege, what have you, and you get literally nothing as a reward 99.9% of the time. It literally screams "why bother" with that content. I mean, it's fine for those that want to farm mats all day and craft, but where is the uniqueness that sets apart your character from everyone else's? It doesn't even have to be amazing, perhaps a unique look? Just something other than a ceramic mug, 4 arrows, and 15 gold.

 

Has anyone here ever played a game where players create their own dungeons? Well I have. I can hear many of you are excited about this and I don't mean to rain on your parade but I have concerns about this system taking our resources and then causing much disappointment. So here are a few concerns I have.

At first there will be the thrill to create your very own dungeon. So yay here you go. For example I name it Majorias Menagerie of Magical Mystery. Then I set about designing and implementing the different features the devs give us to create with such as different creatures, how they'll act, where they'll be placed, write the story behind it all, announce it ready to the masses. Etc
Ok now what?

Well in my negativity I see I am not the only one who created a dungeon. There are perhaps 200 or so of them out there. What happens now? Who's going to visit my dungeon or even know it exists? what's that going to do for the dungeons we do have?

One reason I have concerns is while this may be a cool extra idea for the game it solves nothing. We have systems in the game that never got their proper amount of love. They are skimped on with promises of improvements later. When is later? Systems Such as agriculture, fishing, taming, questing, cooking, brewing.

What is going to make this so much different in its future as an awesome fully implemented feature of the game? I have my doubts. Fishing is coming up for its update in R58 and if that is another system lacking then what? No stand up notes on it at all. I am concerned. Can we start to see some focus on systems we already have to be complete systems before announcing a new one? What confidence does that give?

Ok sorry for the derail of this thread but while you are giving your thoughts on this upcoming system join me in rallying for attention and details on our bare bones systems that we do already have. And take heart. It won't be all about loot that a system is good it will be in the details first. How fun can we make it now not later. So beware and give great ideas on this and fight for them as I continue to do for this game. Ok just imo.

Edited and now a few stand up notes on fishing update have happened but not much detail. so fyi just to update my post

 

Something is only farmable if they let it automatically respawn, or let it respawn in a way that is accessible or convenient to farming. I think there are ways to design dungeon experiences where you can get loot at the end while still preventing it from being farmed.

 

@majoria70

Yes, a bit off topic ;D Though I agree with you, dungeon creation is cool and I hope to see it, but there's a lot of focus on the creative/social side of the game which I don't think helps really strengthen the core gameplay. They did mention that it might serve as a stepping stone to developing other game mechanics. So we'll see :>

 

They had player made dungeons in EQ2, and it literally did nothing for gameplay, and they were only utilized to farm xp until they were nerfed. I really think they should focus on enhancing the content they have available right now. The largest issue is going to be staying power. How long can you farm and craft, farm and craft, farm and craft, oh and quest until you are bored with it, and move on to something else. Longevity in this field is extremely difficult to achieve. EQ1, Ultima, WoW, are some of the larger games that have been out for a really long time, but even their player bases are shrinking.

 

@Chris LOOT


need I say more?

 

And what's going to happen when you, and everyone else, has LOOT flowing out of their ears ? What then ?

 

Not to throw a wrench in the OP, but I am looking forward to creating dungeons. I'd like to be able to pick the loot people get. Maybe make it worthwhile for me to craft something I may not use, but instead of salvaging it or selling it, put it in MY loot table. Maybe someone won't like it, but maybe someone will.

Back to the point of the OP. I get the frustration, I think we all do. But in a way, this makes things either super rare, or has people farm certain mobs for drops. That can be a plus/negative. However, if crafted gear is supposed to be the end all be all, then maybe this is not such a super bad thing. Maybe a happy medium is to introduce rare drops required for crafting (this has been suggested numerous times before, so forgive me for not remembering and sourcing properly). This can help to make crafting better, because maybe these catalysts can either a) increase crafting RNG, or b) just make something a bit stronger. Maybe something that is applied AFTER crafters get a +15 piece of crap they wouldn't otherwise use, they can then apply this catalyst. The catalyst would be a rare drop from the bosses - maybe split them into tiers (low-level/mid-level/high-level/ultra-level bosses)? Something a bit extra in the loot table.

But, yes, definitely something they are looking at, talk about, but haven't implemented yet is better loot. Again, this is likely to keep things super rare and to avoid making crafters more irrelevant than they already feel.

Sorry, went off on a bit of a rant.

 

Play something else?

 

That's pretty much the plight of any MMO other there. What keeps players coming back? For some, it's high end raiding. For others, it's crafting. For others, it's collecting/completionism. Then there's exploring, questing, player housing, running a business, PVP and even RP. I think SOTA has many of these categories covered (PVP, RP, Crafting, Collecting, Leveling, Player Housing, Running a Business). Some aspects do need improvement (maybe something like Achievements for the Completionists out there).

I'm able to maintain a stable net worth solely from the items I craft. Money from "adventuring" (ie, killing mobs, doing dungeons) is something I know that I couldn't survive on. The only things that ANY mob represents is XP, a few gold coins, some vendor trash and some crafting raw materials....and maybe something for a quest. Nothing more. That's the way the economy works in SOTA. I can understand why Portalarium doesn't want to drop items from mobs/bosses...it under cuts the crafters. But it can be seriously annoying to go through a big fight only to get the same treasure would would have gotten killing "Thug". Even if there were some sort of non-monetary gain...like an achievement, or some sort of reputation standing change (which, in itself, is another game play mechanic people enjoy getting involved with) . Just something.

In regards to dungeons, I'm really looking forward to seeing what Portalarium comes up with. I built and ran my own Neverwinter Night server with 300+ areas and scores of quests for several years. I worked for an MMO company for 3 years doing world design and world building. I'm excited to be able to build an area, and create quests again.

 

well.. just maybe... if there be loot, we'll have people around playing to cross that bridge when we come to it. IDk..maybe we'll spend it on all the cool player crafted resources...

Here's what I know for sure: I slogged around for ages playing mostly solo through the mid 80's (adv lvl wise) on pure crap loot. sure.. I coulda stayed underground and just mined ore but I shouldn't have to. I don't recall now which release it was when they nerfed loot hard but it really sucked. Prior to that I could at least make a little headway.
Maybe I'm just crazy but I still say that the balm of loot cures a host of "grind away" woes. All play and no loot makes for a far less happy avatar.. one more likely to shelve the game than to wait with baited breath on the next telethon.

 

I fill my coffers with money from adventuring. Any loot that isn't something that I can use directly (like potions, crafting stuff, etc) gets sold to NPC merchants.

 

You're crazy, Sol

...I don't think simply getting loot ultimately makes the game less grindy or more fun. As far as using the loot to purchase things... the more people get certain items in loot, the less valuable they'll be to sell, and the more gold they get, the more there'll just be inflation and the items they want to buy are more expensive.

Like I said, though, I agree with the OP from the perspective that I think "getting loot at the end of the rainbow" is good just from a gameplay perspective, in that it gives players a reason to complete an entire dungeon run, so they can "achieve" something at the end. I also think killing a dragon should be a way to "achieve" something, getting good loot. However, that just has to be balanced with preventing these things from being farmable.

So, for instance, the devs have once talked about preventing farmability of bosses by not doing endless respawns or having them appear at certain times. The same thing can be done with some end-dungeon chests. This, done in some way, could allow those things to have good loot, which I'd support.

However, when players ask for everything at once, to cater to every convenience and whim; for example, that things be both endlessly farmable and provide great loot, I think they're being unrealistic and preventing the devs from finding good solutions that will make the game more fun and cut down on the grinding.

 

@redfish

the loot sux for most players in Sota