Bow aiming

You can't realistically do it with a gun either.

Most games have some things you can do moving and others you do standing. It's just about gameplay and balance. The less you allow range to move, the harder and stronger cc/damage had to be to compensate.

 

What does everyone think of the way the new Neverwinter MMO did their combat aiming? I myself really liked it, though I felt the autosnap targeting could have been Greatly toned down. I would also have liked to have seen ranged attacks miss instead of just not triggering.

I cant think of any other games that have had a system like that off the top of my head.
Thoughts?

 

It's fun what they did with the Neverwinter combat system but I always imagined like Monster Hunter 3 combat system, where you hit and where you aim actually matters.

 

Requiring actual dexterity for archery is a bit unfair. Some people are awful at FPS / aiming related games and still would want to RP as an archer.

Wouldn't be right to hose them.

I vote you pick a target and shoot. Have the accuracy % for a hit be based off distance, stats, if you're being hit, and if you're moving while shooting.

There are plenty of variables that can help make archery realistic without actually requiring all of the aiming/simulation of a real bow & arrow.

 

I'll also add that as much as I enjoy archery IRL, I've never liked archery as it's been presented in any game as far as realism goes. in UO it was fine, no drawing/aiming. It just isn't fun to me.

 

Maybe if Archery skill helps you lock on a target, people with bad hand-eye coordination or just people who don't like to be obliged to aim. As you ascend through skill level, it can give you a certain degree of aim help. At first no crosshair you get to learn by yourself. After that, zooming comes..
And eventually you get to shoot easier, it'll be matter of "where" not "who". I mean when I think about "Master Archer" I think about Legolas, Robin Hood and those kind of talented characters. It can be done like how DCUO did, you have to aim a bit but you don't have to be skillfull.

 

I agree with the fact that a bow should not be used in melee range. But my issue with it is that in literally almost every game I've played that had archers; the bow was too easy. If you've ever done archery in real life; you know it's damn near impossible to hit your target while moving; and hard to hit a target at a long distance as it is. The way I see this game unfolding is that it's not gear and stats that make a player; but actual skill. If I'm good enough to realistically loose an arrow that will cut a thread of spider silk; I should be able to do so without the help of an auto aim or anything. I like the idea of tossing around a first person perspective for archery (maybe similar to a dark souls aiming mechanic); but another thing that also has to be taken into consideration is gravity; the weight of the arrows; and wind. If I shoot a wooden arrow into a dragons mouth, I don't exactly expect it to do ****. I expect it to burn to a cinder, and the dragon hopefully chokes on the ashes.

 

I was talking about bow hunting today with someone.
He was saying how good bows are for stealth, they don't alert the creature you are shooting at.
It is possible to miss your target and still be able to take another shot.
Maybe:
1. Bows could do lots of damage (first strike) if your target does not know you are there.
2. Can be real silent not to alert whoever it is that your attacking.
3. Some weapons could be good for a first hit while others might be good for a finishing blow.
It sounds like there will be some system like that anyways depending on how you play your cards (not saying that they are using cards).

 

sometimes... but generally the arrow makes noise when it hits something so it alerts them, but yes, many times, especially early in the season it just makes them look around.. depends on how badly you missed hehe..

It also depends on how skittish they are.. if you ever tried bow hunting in rifle season it's difficult, they are on high alert from all of the hunters shooting. They'll bound off from the slightest noise and avoid anywhere they can smell humans.

 

Mount & Blade Warband: old game but I still play it because the combat system is fun and love archery in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIGlOR8SwF8 for a bow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ynx9PE8zM another archer gameplay vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSbpzXfL4V4 here's a crossbow as well... just to get the picture

I doubt that the combat system will be similar, but I still play this game because the combat WORKS and is only skill based!

 

Something that is fun and works to me is better then realism.

 

@monxter
Here is a more realistic game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZqQo55eHc

But I think the games you listed would work better.
Depends on how fast things are moving.

There would be a lot more archers in the game if many of the creatures ran off when you got to close.

 

I suspect it will work like Neverwinter, and I think that's a good thing. This is how I imagined it working but I hadn't seen an MMO do it.

Camera is 3rd person over the shoulder. (Basically like first person.)
Mouse controls targeting and camera.
WASD is relative to targeting.

Thus you're always aiming with the mouse.

NW is extremely generous on targeting and there's one big hit box. But you obviously could make the game so that say targeting the leg had a different effect or that more misses or crits were based on how you aimed. My vote would be to keep it simple and add depth later once it was proven to work.

 

Yeah Neverwinter has a soft lock targeting system which i thought worked quite well. Like you said it was very generous though but that is something that could be changed. As long as it isnt as punishing as Darkfall: Unholy Wars! i got put off that game very quicky to say the least

 

Guys, I do apologize. I do want to contribute to things here in decent ways but I always see very alarming comments.

I urge everyone at Portalarium go out right now and setup a Perfect World account. Log into both Star Trek Online and Neverwinter Online and play through both games. Don't worry guy, it will only take a week, if you thought you had to spend a lot of time in it, you don't. This goes for everyone, go out and play both of those games and while you are doing it, take notes. When you are done, return here and post everything those two games does in a new post called 'how games should never be done'

Seriously, both of those games are a huge joke, I'd really hesitate to call them games and would be offended if Portalarium took a single idea out of PW Games and dumped them into SotA. But my faith in them is strong, I really think they know better and you guys should also.

I cannot make any suggestions on this, I don't know what camera position will be used if not many, hell I dont even know if bows will be used! I will go so far as to say that there should never be any auto aim at all under any circumstance.

 

Oh... you guys like playing Action RPGs.. I'm not a big fan.. more of a strategic RPG person myself.. I dont want to mouse click every sword swing and aim every arrow... I hated it in every RPG i've played.. even Skyrim. except for the NES and SNES zelda games... those 3 had awesome action with manual sword use... I didn't care much for the other zelda titles. too much swinging, not enough shooting and stabbing.

 

+1 Sir Mishri

I don't mind Action RPGs, but I consider them Action games with leveling. For RPGs I prefer strategic as well with turn based combat; however, turn-based does not work into multiplayer very well. I am hoping for something more like the Bioware NWN where you queue actions and they take affect based on initiative and other die rolls.

I am really hoping we don't have to aim a bow. At that point why have stats or skills at all, just make it an FPS.

 

It depends on how the first person is. Do you really want someone chasing you putting arrows in your back with auto targeting from 20 feet away. Stuck to you like glue?

It also depends on if you can run while shooting.

 

Right, if I remember correctly UO there was a delay based on your weapon speed before the next arrow let loose once you stopped moving, no moving and shooting... Although I could be remembering wrong... also it was amusing to run from the arrow and watch it chase after you heheh

 

The way I see it; it could either be done in a first person or third person over the shoulder view. Perhaps (as you guys have mentioned) the thoughts of the time it takes to nock an arrow and be able to draw a bow while moving would depend on the skill level in archery; and the ability to aim and hit a person where it hurts; like head shots or in the toe, depends on the player and certain environmental debilitation or circumstances. If I have the wind blowing from behind me; I may be able to shoot an arrow straighter or farther, but with less accuracy. If the winds coming from the est and I'm facing north and shooting a long distance, the arrow should waver, and I should have to compensate. Of course you could always use a scope system, and include that as a steam punk feel to the bows, and help out at long ranges, maybe measured in yards or whatnot, that a player could learn over time, but regardless, there should NOT be an auto-aim.

And, backtracking a little, on the topic of debilitation. If I shoot an enemy in his sword arm, why in the hell should he be able to still swing his sword, or if I shoot a helmet less man straight through the head, what excuse does he have to still be walking? (this excluding undead and magic beings). If I want to play thief, and a player who has pvp on decides to run, and I shoot him in the knee or foot, he may still live, but I force him to give me all his stuff, as he is left defenseless. And I could see how people would argue this point; "A one shot kill with a bow is not fair to players, and is far too overpowered!", that being said, if I have a bow aimed for your head and you're far away, the chances I'll hit you are slim to none, if you come running straight at me, you can expect to get an arrow right between the eyes, but if you run in a zig-zag random patters, I'll be forced to draw my sword and take you on with a blade. If I hit you in the foot or knee, maybe you don't collapse and die slowly, because that wouldn't be fun for anyone, but maybe you limp on back to the closest town for healing, call a friend, or use the knowledge of medicine you have. The point is if I stick you with an arrow, it should hurt, and cause you to look hurt.