My failed expectations on SOtA.

Some yea. Others, maybe not.

EDIT; Take for example the avatars. The first avatars and NPCs were so horrendous that I didn't want to fund the game. But those were just demo.

 

Eon I am sure everyone here has concerns in one aspect or another about the direction, design, or benefits of the game. The key thing to remember imo is those we backed ( LB and co.) are in fact professionals with real success and failure under their belts. They will either make a good game or fail, either way we backed them in hopes of the next Lord British RPG. Until any one of us has any success in video game design we'll have to have faith in them. Don't assume (because you disagree with the direction) that they got it wrong. I am positive if we sat in on the design meetings of our favorite Ultima game, we would find flaws in the direction they chose. There is a long ways to go and alot of unreleased facts about the game yet to come. If in the end you are correct and the game isn't for you, so be it. Until then just chime in (here) with concerns and suggestions and hope they get noticed. It maybe the game will surprise you or disappoint you, none of us will know until it is about finished. Lets keep their feet to the fire but without flaming their (or our) toes. As with any investment though the risk of you losing is always there.

Best regards,
Pen.

 

Firstly, you will need to understand that I am an Ultima fan-boy, so, yeah

I would just like you to understand a few things. The release testing being done at the moment, is pre-Alpha. I'm thankful that I'm getting the chance to jump in and have a look around and watch the progress they make through this period, hell most game vendors wouldn't even provide you with screenshots at this point! But we get to jump in and have a look around then give feedback so they can improve it. How in Pagan can you look down on a process like this!

What I must say at this point is that I am surprised anyone would judge a game so harshly in a pre-Alpha stage to say that they will never enjoy it and furthermore will never back another kickstart project again due to it... Seems incredibly shortsighted, especially since everything they said SotA is going to be it is becoming from what I can see.

I myself too am waiting for many details that I am worried about, but really there is no need for me to post a "when can I start writing and playing player-made music in-sota" yet, because it is still very early. SotA is a baby, give it time to grow.

 

After reading through this thread I beleive some people should think long and hard before parting with money backing a project.

The fun part is watching a game built from the ground up. However this process is not always for the weak hearted, most people will have an idea of what they expect or like to see......it may not always work out how you would like. There is a chance that you could end up hating what is created, on the other hand you might love it......one thing is for certain and that is developers cannot please everyone.

There are key areas I am very concerned about (combat), however this does not put me off. I know that the team are very experienced in what they do and although at times I may struggle to visualise their vision; I am more than happy to wait for the testing phase to see it for myself.

People must recognise that this is Alpha, you won't see amazing polished graphics, it will seem that there is lots of emphasis on certain areas......last month was housing, this month crafting, next month multiplayer and so on. You can't build the jigsaw by placing random pieces on the table....it has to have structure and that is exactly what is being seen in the Alpha releases.

The golden rule for backing any project or making an investment is to do your research and understand what your putting money in to.......even more importantly never put more in than you are prepared to lose.

 

I think ill go to the bakery tomorrow and order a cake. Then as the baker starts to stir in all the ingredients in a bowl i'll yell out " Never mind! Look at it, all wet and mushy! Nothing like a cake at all!" and then leave.

 

Just wanted to add my 2c to this thread that has been running overnight.

It has been eloquently stated elsewhere by another poster that the "simple" artwork and construction - like housing - would be quicker and easier to get done. So you show off that first. Meanwhile, other workers are busily working away at conversations and crafting (due to be seen in R2), more features, and combat (to be seen in R4). That is much more complicated, and nowhere near being completed yet.

The initial picture will not be a fair representation of the finished product.

Have you ever built a house? If so, the builder may proudly show you progress when the floor/foundations have just been completed. You think "that looks a mess - nothing like what I had in mind!" Well of course not, and it still looks pretty dodgy as it continues. Once everything is done and the fitout is complete, it looks much more like the house you wanted.

I hear your concerns, and thank you for the temperate nature of your post. I can only ask you to reserve judgement until the final product is revealed. We are promised a deep and rich storyline, with ethical challenges, intricate quests, and the benefit of as much player interaction as we want. Please hang around, and I hope you get a pleasant surprise.

 

Good post OP. I find myself saying "where's the PVP" on a daily basis, so I completely understand the spirit of your concerns.

 

Hmm. You were, for the most part, respectful of the developers. Thank you for not going down the road of comparisons to this game or that game. For my part, I am very pleased with the product so far. In fact I am going to increase my pledge amount to grab some goodies. I think this is the game most RPGers, who also enjoy MMOs, have been waiting for. At least I hope so. Having Lord British and aspects of the Ultima franchise attached to it would have made me buy it when it released any way. I am a sucker for a good RPG and this one, at least from the talk I have heard, is shaping up to be THAT game for me. We shall see what the future holds. But at least wait and condemn it after it releases.

 

I think that's a fair choice to make. However, I can't blame anyone (including the OP) for being skeptical of development teams in general. I've followed multiple games where a robust PVP system is promised and in the end it looks just like every other game out there, maybe some lame consensual duels or an arena separate from the actual game.

I've learned that if you don't voice your concerns early, it doesn't help you to voice them after the money and development time has been spent. The OP has clearly stated that he's disappointed with the overall emphasis on social interaction (1/4 of the bartle spectrum of playstyles). I for one think he makes an excellent point.

 

That, or sausage making.

https://shroudoftheavatar.com/forum...-creation-is-like-sausage-making-repost.3412/

 

Wow. I think I'll go to a baker tomorrow and as worms are put into the dough, I'll stand back and say "Gee golly, I better not say anything. Heck, I think I'll pledge $3000 to this worm cake because I would never dream of saying anything before a product is finished!"

Come on guys, that sausage making comparison is fine, but when you start using it as a trump card it loses almost all of its credibility. And Gracekin, just yesterday you were telling me how you had a right to voice your opinion without being dismissed. Pot meet kettle.

I like both of you two, but come on guys, you can't really fail to see the irony here can you?

 

Well spoken OP. Its refreshing to see somebody taking a humble approach at communicating such a heavily stigmatized viewpoint. The nature of the development process seems to justify Portalarium's priorities (as many have elaborated on across this genre of threads), but that doesn't invalidate your concerns.

 

I'm so lost, confused, and hungry now.

 

They're building a game that would normally take 5 years to make but giving it to us in less than 2 years. They will add & improve content as Ep1 is live, Chris has said this on several occasions, get the game out to us as early as possible & keep adding content later.

 

One solution would be to gift the pledge to me, and I will refund you the price you plaid via paypal. (Probably followed by upgrading). That aside, I think the biggest issue for people to overcome is seeing a game so early in development and being exposed to all the decisions and processes involved. Each Ultima built on the previous release, sometimes completely from scratch. I wouldn't expect this to be a sequel to UO, but it should have some of what made that game good along with new innovations. At least that's what I envision, and I've not been disappointed yet. The making sausage analogy is right on.

As for the add-on store being different, just about every KS I've seen on this scale has had post KS backing. Star Citizen went from roughly 34k backers in KS, to 365k+ backers post kickstarter. They raised over 80% of their current funds after the KS ended. I didn't back them till after the campaign, and wasn't a second rate citizen there. Portalarium has stood by the the current founders to the point of binding their own hands when it comes to being able to offer anything new to benefactors.

Portalarium could certainly use more money, and I don't think it's close to the budget of a traditionally funded AAA title. They're walking a fine line in trying to please the most people, and make a great game. I do not envy their position, and I bet the dev team is wondering what's the lesser of the two evils. Dealing with us, or a traditional publisher? In the end, I hope the result is game closer to what they envision, and do what they do best, on their schedule.

 

I think you mistake my patience, or the patience of others, for complacency. I am happy with the vision that has been stated by the developers. The OP clearly stated he's concerned about how features he cares about have not been given attention lately. My counter to that is that this is only the pre-alpha Release 1 and the emphasis right now is on housing and crafting systems. If the developer's schedule has combat and other features coming for Release 4, they have a reason for it. I will leave that to them and when they ask for input on what I think about the features I have tested, then I will give it to them if I have any. I too have followed multiple games that did not deliver (Warhammer Online anyone?) , but those games have all hidden their progress until a beta test with an NDA. This game is letting us and the world know the state of the game as it develops and is asking for our feedback. I say give them the benefit of the doubt and wait at least until we have a feature heavy Beta to make our judgements.

 

I would take a different view that Players created F2P because they Sold / Bought items through E-Bay or other sites.
UO Origin: are to blame allowing it to Flourish They wanted the subs being paid so did not impose a Ban and strip the accounts of E-Bay sellers. Today they would be unable to stop it especially if Developers have sold for real money.
F2P, P2W is just a way of grabbing more from players to get the full game content sooner than charging $50. With free to play to get all the things you should have in a game can cost $100's of dollars.
But Rare/Unique items were bound to account so no out of game selling.
SotA seems to be going down the route of selling Multi Rares & Advantage tools etc per account.that are not even bound to account so will be on E-Bay.

If this was Digital Music being sold there would be some tough Penalties for anyone selling their songs.

 

Well, there's always beer.

 

I actually have no problems with the OP. He lists some areas that he felt didn't meet his expectations and that's fine. But his expectations were presumably to see a final product already, which is why that analogy is fitting. But I think the OP really says it with:

Something i learned is that, I will never back a project again for what it looks like or what they say its going to be and just wait until everything is finished and I can play after release demo or a 14 day pass, or just see a few gameplay footage. And ofc my hopes on getting something that merely resembles to Ultima ends here or at least I know I'm not going to find that into SOtA.

Crowd funding is not for him. He doesn't have the stomach to consume that sausage before it's ready.

I do hope he returns after R4 or at a later date. I mean, it's not the first time that someone quit the SotA campaign / backer engagement process, only to come back after a couple months to say how things are looking better.

 

It just seems to me that coming to a conclusion about SotA based on the experience in R1 is about like seeing the first scene filmed for a movie with no special effects or other post-production editing and coming to a conclusion about the movie then and there.

First of all read THIS. (Content Warning in one section) Basically it's a rundown of how movies are filmed in such a manner that trying to understand what's going on is going to be a lost cause.

The same applies here with the Releases. First of all, to have any sort of public access to the game this early is fairly unheard of (at least it used to be unless you were connected directly with the project in some way) and really, if not for Kickstarter, we probably would not be hearing about SotA for MONTHS yet.

People bring up the focus on Housing, but let's be honest... Housing in programming terms is low-hanging fruit. There are only a couple of real "systems" involved... ownership and customization. Both of which were handled (aside from character to character transfer) by the 6 month demo thus the only thing the team had to do was build the houses available in game. In the meantime, more complex systems (crafting, conversations, combat, etc) are all being worked on. Some of which are still in the "idea phase" (mainly combat) and others have been minimally tested and are being expanded, but are for the most part kept under wraps due to wanting to keep the main storyline secret until the game is released (conversations, quests, etc).

In the meantime, we, the players/fans, get the added benefit of providing helpful feedback on what aspects of the game work well and what aspects need to be changed or improved. The key thing is to understand where the game is and what the devs are looking for us to focus on in each Release Test.

Don't worry so much about the end product until we get there... right now the focus is on specific systems as they beciome playable.