The Ideal Economy?

Sometimes this seems to be ok. Other times obviously not...

 

That is where you got it all wrong my friend

What to you is roleplay might be considered "work" if the system is built properly.

You could only be there to help people get on with live content, share your knowledge and have block chain tokens add up in your account with no effort on your part

Then you could use those tokens in game if you wanted, to get more clues and knowledge for your own roleplay quests (player or dev quests).

It's a multiverse, open your mind and you will begin to see the light

 

I do know what you mean there my friend Many of our greatest PvP fighters are also away until launch time.

It's incentives that drives a good economy and quests Indeed! Greed driven please ~TL~

 

Oh ok, sounds good.

 

Objectives are difficult to identify in our game, "beyond the Portalaium Quests".

The many different funds we could have to place your COTO in before buying anything with them...

• Each monster and creature could have such a fund. If dragons were not being killed enough, then COTO would begin being more seeded within their drops and if you had COTO placed in that fund, instead of gaining 1% per real world month, they would be gaining 10% within a month.
• Each commodity could have a fund. There's not enough grapes in the world, so maybe the farmer upon harvest could find a COTO if they were harvesting their grapes, while if a player had their COTO in the grape fund during that time, then that fund could have it's own 10% per month invested value.
• Guilds could easily be identified through their own funds through how many actual ingame hours they collectively played our game... and if they were out hunting the right creatures, then they could come across a COTO or two within their drops because that guild had a motive to seek out the best COTO drops.
• Crafting could even have it's own fund, yet through selling their wears to NPC, if that commodity was in demand, being something that hasn't been being made, or sold, or grown, then the NPC could tip a COTO on rare occasion to those selling that particular crafted commodity.

We all know that there's too much stuff in the world, yet how to get rid of it and have motive not to keep it is paramount to everything when it comes to stimulating a player based economy Having too many commodities stockpiled is the elephant in the room that no one wants to address that's in the stockpiling business because they know that currently stockpiles = power over those less fortunate not to have a huge stockpile of their own. There's too many things on player's vendors for any new player to get ahead... New players and casual players are harmed most by stockpiles held by "we" longer played gaming members. Without such stockpiles, then the economic environment has a more level playing field. ~TL~

 

With the current model, indeed... but if you look at UO who was packrats paradise, stockpiling = item and gold sink.

The more those evil players stockpiled, the more the crafters worked to replace items that went missing from the game. Since real strong magic items weren't so much better than player made items, and the world was open pvp, not many players would risk their best gear before sending a scout to dungeons to make sure they were clear of bandits.

If it hadn't been hacked to death, UO's economy would have worked pretty well.

 

The one thing we have here in our SOTA that I see as our largest asset, is that these are many of the same development people who first built the Siege Perilous Shard's player based economy.
~TL~

 

I hope they know that I left and joined siege 4 times over the years, and started from scratch each time and the experience was FUN each step of the way, especially the last time I joined a few years ago when I finally stopped being a lone wolf and shared in with the BEAUTIFUL community

As an empath I could appreciate people's bliss though the hardships without them even mentioning any details, and I say without shame that it brought me to tears more than once.

*shout out to Petra Fyde, @Tazar, Goodman and many others, I miss you all*

 

Indeed @Ahuaeynjgkxs ! Long Live (TFS) The Fellowship! First house ever built on SP shard and the most powerful Order war-guild of that shard's first year up and running ~Time Lord~

 

My character was Tasslehoff when the shard opened... I'm sorry if I caused you guys any trouble

I was quite the pain in the... lol. Great memories... lets say that the novel Dragons of Summer flame was the great inspiration for me

 

you have the knack for drawing me to derail threads

So yes... the ideal economy would look alot like Siege

 

In theory a player would never buy from a vendor that which is sold for "less" on an NPC, so the player offering a higher price than a NPC will screw themselves by doing so, and NOT get any sales... For the NPC to "raise" their price to match the player vendor is ludicrous... It's the Player who needs to "lower" their price to compete, and get the sales, the key to any business IS make sales, not sitting on overstock...

Now I think all the NPCs should be aware of the game inventory of a particular commodity and when the inventory is getting saturated, the spawn should slow down to nothing at all, until the inventory is used up, the NPC prices should also fall when a saturation occurs too... The more stock that's in the inventory, the slower the NPC restocks...

The opposite should occur too, when a shortage in stock happens, the price rises and respawn gets quicker and NPCs restock faster...

I think this can work if NPCs offer ALL commodities for sale AND players have the option to farm all commodities in the wilds, the price would balance itself according to game stock (and supply/demand)... NPCs can buy commodities from players at half price, this would give incentives for players to sell to other players, and undercut the NPC to gain sales...

Competition would exist as NPCs vary their prices according to game stock, the more players farm/hoard, the lower the price goes... The more players sell to other players, the more that's consumed...

 

Excepting that players can sell in bulk. NPCs shouldn't. Of course, that's not how Portarlium set things up where NPCs are also selling in bulk which is also ludicrous. A farmer might sell you 50 carrots, but not 1000. Players could undercut NPCs or even charge the same on average.. but if you need 500 of something, you're not going to go to the NPC who only has 50, you'll go to the player who has what you need. Where you start getting balance here is the threshold at which players are willing to pay bulk vs the effort of finding X number of NPCs.. cost vs effort.. or something like that.

I didn't say match.. I said compete. If you're selling item X in bulk for an average of 15 gold a piece.. and I'm selling it for 10.. but someone buys from you.. I'll say.. hey.. if people are willing to pay more.. then I can charge more too.. so I'll charge 14 gold a piece and see if that works because obviously the demand is there to justify that price.

This is not in dispute, but the player will act however the player will act.. the point is that NPCs should also be proactive in responding to the market.

I'm trying to remember the specifics of an idea I put out way back when. The general concept was simulated world economy.. Mind you this was long before we even had player merchants..

Basically, every hour or two the game would simulate the buying and selling of goods. An NPC merchant would only buy a finite amount of goods from players with a limited amount of currency. If players bought some of it, great.. if not, the NPC would recoup their gold buy selling product into the world.. the product would then enter the loot tables to either be found on mobs or reappear elsewhere on other merchants who had low stock and so bought the product from the world.

It was probably in my finite economy thread buried somewhere in Dev+ Items wouldn't specifically 'spawn' like a faucet/sink system.. but they would be tracked.. bought and sold on the world market or released into loot tables until they were used up. If the world or regional market that became saturated would respond by lowering prices.. but if was saturated beyond a certain threshold then the world pool could simply consume the excess.

Natural resources would effectively be limitless but as explained the world market could act as a sink for virtually anything as needed.

 

The quickest way to ruin an economy is to restrict raw material supply. It is the movement of the supplies through the economy that makes it a success. Excess supply will naturally drive down prices if that is what people desire most. The only reason there is so much stock building up is because the supply of gold is extremely constrained at the moment. People simply cannot generate enough gold to purchase what otherwise they would buy. I contend that rather than constrain availability of nodes and such, a loosening of the gold purse will go a long way to unleashing all the economic activity we long for. The constraint on trade across the map is another impediment to a healthy economy, a trade off for those who dream of supply caravans and businesses that move goods. A sluggish economy is just a somewhat minor byproduct of this restriction to movement of goods.

 

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here on the part of 'loosening the gold purse'. I was with you up until this part. Part of the problem is that some players earn gold far too easily that they think it justifies the high prices. They'll tell you that their time is worth X amount to harvest those materials because they could make that much farming gold such that they would consider it a loss if they didn't charge that much. If everyone could make so much gold, the value of currency would sink and prices would continue to rise.

Rather, make the raw resources easier to get. Loosen up THAT bottleneck and even the hardcore players will be forced to lower their prices.

Example: Let's say the master miner gets X amount of ore per hour and because of the time it takes they consider it worth 40 gold a piece. Now double the output.. the time is still worth the same but you have double the resources.. which means it's half the cost. And so is everything else.. now gold can buy twice as much as it did before.

In a healthy economy you want the value of currency to rise.. not drop.

 

The problem I see in that, is that stockpiling is generally done only by the rich, meaning that the more rich, the less there is for the new or lesser well off player to achieve their own goals.

There again, we're talking currency, yet "everything is the same as a currency". When commodities or currencies are Stockpiled, this makes for bad gameplay for the new or lesser well off player.

Just for an example... Do you ever see a time when the BMC guild will ever run out of stock or currency? <---<<< That's just never going to happen unless there's a provided reason for the gold or commodities to be spent. This is the best example why we need a COTO Stock Exchange, which would be it's own gold and commodity sink, because it's then more profitable to have the stockpile converted or sold into COTO, because of added percentage return on those investments. The only reason to stockpile, is to manipulate the economy threw entering into price wars with your neighbor's vendors and thus dominating the market.

~Time Lord~

 

How does someone stockpiling prevent others from harvesting new materials? We do not have a finite economy and if we did.. raw resources are not (effectively) and should not be finite.

I've yet to hear a good reason why someone stockpiling resources has a negative effect on my game? It doesn't reduce the resources available to me.

Should there be a reason to spend it? Sure.. but it won't stop all hoarding.. but after a certain point hoarding becomes meaningless. If you never spend it, it may as well not exist. So you want to hoard? Have nothing to spend it on? Ok so now you have bragging rights.

If someone should decide to flood the market? Great, lower prices for awhile. They want to try to sell it high? Let them try, I'm not going to pay those prices.

 

Let's say a player can make 10,000 gold an hour. He can mine 100 ore per hour. So you are saying that player will sell his ore at 10,000 per 100? Of course not. The player can only really sell his ore at or below market price. In this instance, his cost of production is way out of line with other players. His earnings per hour are irrelevant. The cost of production on the macro level is some average of all player's cost of production and gaming the "regional roadblocks". If the player(s) want to corner the market on ore, this would be a boon for the miners who would see ore prices going up and up. Pretty soon they will be averaging closer to 10,000 an hour just mining and selling ore at the inflated price. The bubble will burst eventually because the hoarders will have to unload. If they decide to craft with their hoard, they will lose most of it to enchantment/masterwork (poof) and the lucky miners will be left holding the gold. Prices will drop and we are back to square one.

 

Both are true, because we have a sims-sandbox hybrid, so we lose nothing to go with a hybrid economy either as bowen suggests, I think it would simply offer more flexibility for devs to adjust inflation, because RMT wants inflation.

Oh my, I said it again.

 

I'm with you on all your points here...

Wrong of course, "yes"... If a player can earn 10,000/hr AND mine 100 ore/hr, they will charge 10,000 per 100 because they will assume all other players are doing the same thing. Market price will become 100/ore and the economy stagnates because all other sellers will follow suit... If the player could only earn 5,000/hr, then they would charge 5,000/100 ore and market price becomes 50/per...

The problem with wealthy players is that they assume all other players play as many hrs as they do, that all other players work as fast and hard as they do, they don't stop to see that they're part of the 1% that over achieve... They wonder "why" everyone doesn't do what they do...