Diminishing Game Features

Unfortunately, if, in your opinion, you find consensual-only PvP to be logically flawed in some way, you'll have to present those arguments to the developers.
Personally, I find no fault with the idea.

 

Hi folks - we are going off topic

 

Fair enough.

Sent from my EVA Unit-01 using Tapatalk

 

As @Owain said as well, if you make the accumulation of points and gear the predictor of success in PvP, it will always be doomed to fail. Someone can buy gold or an account. Someone can bot or just straight up grind somewhere. The only way to smooth this out is to ensure that skill points offer choice rather than power, and quality of gear is cosmetic or things like weight / durability which don't translate directly into power.

 

We don't know exactly how Selective Multiplayer will work for PvP, but it probably is not just ON/OFF. There are duels, arena matches, guild wars, and maybe factions long before one considers Open PvP.

 

I think your point is irrelevant, as do several others. I have no control over what other players have, whether gained by more hours played, greater gaming skill, or what. I don't plan on worrying about it.

If someone spends all their time getting stuff in SPO and then comes up to Open PvP, well then. A fool and his gear are soon parted.

 

To get back on topic a bit.

My concern is that when easier/simpler options become available, the average player will use them and overall game features diminish. Things should be difficult for everyone. This provides greater goals and a sense of achievement. We are all competing against the community, even the role players.

 

What I was trying to get at earlier is:
All the options have been known since March, 2013. They're equally difficult or easier for everyone, and enshrined in Kickstarter.

 

That's just a more all around interesting way of doing things anyways. An untrained fencer in any sword art would still hit their opponent in the real world, they just tend to go at openings without thinking of defense. So it even makes sense in a real world context.

 

That's an erroneous assumption. I don't plan on competing with anyone. I'm not in this for competition. Also, I'm able to gain a sense of achievement without making things over-complicated or tedious.

I do not understand this argument that because I want things to be more difficult/tedious/time-consuming/other adjective, everyone should have to play this way. I also do not understand the argument that simple/easy option ruin the game because everyone will choose them. Don't you think there is a reason everyone would choose them? Might that reason be that they prefer it that way? Who are you to decide what constitutes a worthwhile source of achievement for others?

What I'm beginning to grok is that some players want to make it more difficult/tedious/time-consuming/other adjective, and they don't think it's fair that others don't want to put themselves through the same ordeal and so wish to impose their idea of a fun game on everyone else and everyone else better like it! Whether they like it or not.

When it comes to SoTA, I'm Pro-choice!

 

Games are skinner boxes in a sense. We push buttons and get rewards for enjoyment.

Something that is difficult to achieve can be inherently more rewarding because of the difficulty involved.

But unforgiving grinds can also be frustrating and not particularly fun.

Games should have a sliding scale of tasks, to allow casual players to enjoy the game and be rewarded without beating their head into a wall, but there should be more challenging tasks for those who seek them out.

 

That's the point. Some people want unlimited exploration. And that's fine. Just don't have that spill over into parts which are zero sum. Let gold buy the prettiest gear and the awesome housing decorations or whatever. There's no issue unless gold buys power.

 

At times there are game play implications associated with the allowance of convenience

- When overland travel takes more than say 20-30 minutes to arrive to a destination so you can "start" to play - allowing for convenience makes sense

- however if the "game" starts - the second you leave the city through activities along the way to your destination then I would be against fast travel

- I think games have been designed in such a way to encourage/require time spent - due to folks who sprint through content, because of free to play, in game stores and because there is an "endgame" ...

If the framework of this game is to provide things to do the minute you walk out the door; and the reasons why you choose to group are not simply to raid (something that is repetitive and also becomes a chore as apposed to a fun activity; like not having any thing to do) then choice is not the issue - but how the game can be designed to provide a more complete gaming experience

- Additionally - if there are "ingame" choices that are built into the game play - like gate travel - I see no need, or I'll just say that I prefer in game choices as appose to designed "loopholes" (but of course this is more of how things are implemented then choosing one over the other)

 

Fast travel is an Ultima staple. Possibly the first RPG to make extensive use of it really. There were always the moongates of dubious usefulness, but 6 and 7 introduced the red moongate: instant travel to any number of preset destinations. The thought of playing either of those games by walking everywhere sends shivers of dread down my spine.

 

I not saying walk everywhere - I'm saying how you incorporate convenience in the game matters - gate travel required you to know how it worked in order for you yo use it - with the exception when the magic was not working properly and gate travel was inconsistent

My take is - have conveniences - require some type of standard knowledge base; it may also provide a little inconvenience but have it still be manageable

edit - for clarity

 

I'm good with that.

 

In terms of the bag system - if the choose game down with having something like "snooping" and it was a strong likelihood that we need the bag system only - then I would be all about the bag system.

But as of now - have both systems; when it makes sense - to ensure a better game play experience with the convenience to stream line processes when necessary

 

Oh yes, back to the pretext, and lets all pretend we don't know exactly what they are talking about

In a way, it would be darkly humorous if the One True Way To Play Movement was successful, because they haven't stopped to think that the dev chosen One True Way To Play may not be their own.

All or nothing is a dangerous demand to make.

 

Macbeth:If it were done, when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly. If th' assassination
Could trammel up the consequence, and catch
With his surcease, success: that but this blow
Might be the be-all and the end-all—here,
But here, upon this bank and shoal of time,
We'd jump the life to come.

"The Truth of the Way"
This game needs greater difficulty and risks.
Don’t make something simpler or safer, just to do so.

We each have a side, to view all of what might be. In looking for a safety for what we wish to become, or a slick foresighted way for our ambitions to become had more early or in an easier swift way, is to place a coin into an arcade game, to become the "Instant Hero".

Maybe we need to develop an accompanying "Arcade Game" that would fill this wanting that seems needing to be filled?
~Time Lord~

 

Well yeah... But in the case of what I am referring to, it would be like someone participating in the special Olympics receiving gold in an event expecting to be granted the accolades awarded to those who took gold in the non-special Olympics. Or to go back to the football analogy, a high school player who scored a winning touchdown to be praised for winning an NFL game.

I don't have a problem with simplicity of design. There is a big difference between complex and complicated. Hard because something is complex is great. Hard because something is complicated is not. In my opinion, all MMO mechanics should be easy to get into, but at each tier of deeper involvement, there should be a new layer of consideration to take into account that makes the process more involved. I don't mean grindy either. I hate grind. It should be like getting a promotion in one's job. You start out as just an associate, then you become a supervisor. Suddenly, it's not just your performance that the boss is looking at when he evaluates you, he's looking at the performance of your team under your leadership. So your responsibilities increase with position.

In MMO terms, I start off as an individual player. But when I graduate to group play (IE I become confident enough with my handling of the core mechanics) it's not just about me anymore. My actions affect the group, and I must factor that in. Then it moves on to full raid-scale grouping mechanics. One person can totally destroy the efforts of the raid. Leeroy Jenkins, anyone? The kind of coordination required at the raid level, and the sheer amount of mind-blowingly challenging encounters players at that scale must endure entitle them to awards that fit the context. In a raid, it is expected that the mobs will either be significantly tougher or more numerous than those in solo-scale or standard group-scale encounters. So the gear used by someone at raid-scale needs to be statted accordingly.

If all I really care about is solo-able content, then I don't need raid-scale gear. It would be overkill. As long as the gear I get from solo content keeps me statted up enough to be able to endure subsequent solo content, then it's fine. Of course, bringing raid-scale gear to a solo encounter would give me an edge. Bur if I want that edge, I should be willing to do the raid-scale content to get it.

To go back to my statement about not minding simplicity, I would rather have it where gear is just gear, and its effectiveness is based solely on the materials used in crafting it. The challenge should come from facing massive numbers of normal mobs where everyone in a group has to be on their toes rather than a handful of overstated "elite" mobs.

I experimented in Neverwinter Nights concerning an epic encounter. I used weak goblins as my swarm mob of choice. The room in question had two doors leading off to the sides and a locked door leading forward. I put 10 goblins in the room to start with. They had a script attached to their OnDeath condition that caused a new one to spawn at one of the side passages and decrease the value of a tracking variable by 1. I set the tracking variable to 1000. This meant that there would be a total of 1000 goblins that needed killing in that encounter. We are talking about mobs that take one hit to kill even at low levels. I cannot tell you how many times I died when testing it. If one ant bites you, it may hurt, but it really isn't a problem. A thousand ants biting you and you are likely going to the hospital or to the grave depending on various factors.

So if I were designing an MMO, I would make places that would need a full raid-scale group have enough mobs coming at any given time to justify the need for so many players. Fewer could get through with greater difficulty, but it would still require a group.

But of course, in a game where gear is just gear, then the reward would be gear that has unique art. Something that visibly says "I went through hell to get this" but it is still the same stats as the "normal" version. The problem is that people have become so brainwashed by gear-progression oriented MMOs that it is not enough to be able to say you did X piece of content. Now it's got to be something with uber stats.

Look for a moment at the original DOOM game. It went strong for at least five years, using the same monsters and same weapons. But the creative skills many modders had in that game allowed for all sorts of challenging scenarios that kept players on their toes. A group of zombie shotgunners could take down a five-year veteran player if he wasn't paying close attention... Levels in doom marked progression through the content, not progression towards uberness.

I think that MMOs need to rethink their fundamental mechanics going forward. But that's just me...