The power creep is getting silly.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetrion, Oct 24, 2019.

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  1. Boris Mondragon

    Boris Mondragon Avatar

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    "Looks at the nearby table closest to the "conversation", "Places a pouch with some pungent aromatic herbs and packs his pipe taking a deep drag feeling his brain smile then takes a good sip from his dark spiced rum" Oh, sorry you were saying?, Just go with the flow and enjoy the ride you are on it whether you complain or ride the wave. R/Boris/El Pirate/Black Sails Forever.
     
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  2. Aetrion

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    You're competing with people because prices are set by what people will pay for an item, so if people with the ability to pay significantly more than you exist the price of items moves out of your reach as a result. This isn't rocket science, it's basic economic literacy.

    And "Just grind it all in a private scene" isn't exactly an answer either, since that just creates a "worst of both worlds" scenario where they both deteriorate and are obtained through horrendous grind, so all you've accomplished is saddle yourself with infinite circular grind. The vast majority of players just says "no thanks" to that and plays something else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
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  3. Vladamir Begemot

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    Aetrion derailed his thread on the first post. Edited down to the point of this post, the real question is, is he right about this:

     
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  4. King Robert

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    OP is in my view mistaken; if crafted gear is not amazing and powerful, what is the point of crafting?
     
  5. Aetrion

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    If skills aren't powerful and amazing what's the point of leveling them?

    There needs to be a balance so it doesn't feel like the game is completely one sided on what gives you a big payoff and what's just a lot of work for minimal gains.
     
  6. King Robert

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    Agreed Skills should matter most but gear be the difference between sauce and Poivre!
     
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  7. Barugon

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    Yes but right now gear is the difference between getting a critical 15% of the time with a an absolute maximum of 500 points and getting a critical 50% of the time with a max of 2500 points or more. Gear simply plays too much of a roll and significantly diminishes the value of character development.
     
  8. King Robert

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    Wow I use air magic and am pretty good at it (att with wands etc close to 295) and I cannot crit half the time (cara cloth armor too) - and I never break 1k or even get close frankly. I can break 1k rarely on banish undead. Am I doing something wrong? I would love to crit as often and for as much as you describe. What gear causes that?
     
  9. Adam Crow

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    You can't see the other side on any topic you bring up. If you tried to discuss something in a mature fashion and take other perspectives into consideration you would get much further with some of your ideas. But you just find a side and stick to it without ever listening to anyone in your threads. You seem a bit disengaged from how this game actually works and you want something much different for it.

    To implement ideas into this game you need to find what the majority of players would like, including the ones that have been here playing from the beginning. Most of the ideas you have here wouldn't bring in new players, but would in fact alienate a big part of the players that do play the game.

    The statement I highlighted above is a prefect example of another general statement you made that really has no value or explanation behind it. Seems like you just want some attention and keep bumping your threads with meaningless posts. Ive fallen for it for the last time and will refrain from these pointless discussions until i see something of substance to discuss that will actually help the game.
     
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  10. Aetrion

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    It's amazing how you can quote a post that literally says "There should be a balance between what you want and what I want" and accuse the person writing it of not being able to see the other side of the argument.
     
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  11. Oracle Watcher

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    Bzzt. Keep the thread free of attacks please! Thanks!
     
  12. Aetrion

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    Well, to get back to the topic:

    Since the game started the amount of your character's power that comes from gear has continuously increased, and all statements we have on the current course of the game indicate that the intention is to continue this trend. The power you get from leveling skills has been constant, and is starting to slip into irrelevance for all skills that don't multiply their effect with your gear, but add to it. Something like "Train Intelligence" starts becoming extremely expensive past GM. The exponential costs make it so that adding an extra +10 to your stats via skills jumps from taking days to weeks to months to years quite literally.

    Crown store gear has gone from being a viable choice for people who didn't mind a slight drop in power to look dapper and not deal with durability loss to being worthless outside of pattern salvaging. The patterns have drastically lost value too because you can't apply them if the piece you're wearing isn't the exact same type and material, and picking gear for stats over looks is a lot more of a concern when the stats on gear are so high.

    Meanwhile simply spending COTOs to acquire the gold to buy powerful items ingame allows you to acquire the best equipment with real money. Power is for sale in SOTA, and the more power is shoved into tradeable gear the more pronounced this becomes. This is basically a pay to win game right now, since the actual ingame methods of acquiring such extreme wealth aren't trivial to most players.

    The fact that gear breaks down and gear is becoming more and more the defining aspect of any given character also means the game is shifting even further toward upkeep as its primary way to make people engage with the game's various systems. That's a huge mistake, since circular systems simply aren't popular. The character system is the most important expressive element in an open world game, and expressive play is the thing that makes open worlds interesting. Completely infesting the character system with circular systems does make the game not fun for a large number of people who should be part of its target audience. People can smell a treadmill from a mile away, and they don't want to get on one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  13. Curse2

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    I had and used a looted Xee item as well LOL
     
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  14. Curt

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    Would prefer if skills was a greater part of your power.

    Buffs < skills
    Gear < skills

    so gear should be less than a third of your power and same with buffs.
     
  15. Vladamir Begemot

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    You keep derailing yourself, I am afraid. The core topic is the gear power creep, but if you go off onto how it is acquired then everyone will miss the basic premise and just try to explain to you how you can get it without paying money. Even me, I've got tips if you want, but I'm pretty sure it isn't the point.
     
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  16. Violet Ronso

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    I'm open for your suggestions, either you, @Aetrion or whoever else has a plan for this, a way to make it work while keeping the games base idea for combat.

    Here are the rules :

    1. The player must be able to class change at will, going from mage, to healer, to warrior, to tank, to archer, all that in a VERY simple manner.

    2. The player cant be equally powerful in all things at the same time, meaning, I cant be a Mage of all things and be as powerful in fire magic as a dedicated Fire Mage, all while being as powerful as the moon mage and earth mages, there needs to be a choice so that one has to change to do different things.

    3. Choosing the appropriate weapon types should make a noticeable difference in the impact of certain abilities, a swordsman should not cast a fireball as strong as a mage with a fire wand...

    These are two things that are extremely important in shrouds Combat. Players of shroud love the fact that if one night they dont want to play their usual class, they can class change simply by changing armor sets right now. Also, with gear attunement and such, players can specialize and get as much power as possible this way, and someone who doesnt invest in attunement will not be as effective, and you cant invest in multiple schools of magic at the same time.

    If you guys can come up with a suggestion instead of stating out your opinions without backing them up, demanding to change a core system of the game without a reasonable plan, then maybe we will listen and discuss towards your goal instead of telling you how unfeasible your opinions are.

    Surprise me, I really want to be proven wrong and tell crafters that their gameplay will be pointless soon ;) (dang Xee and Elrond ruining my bank :p)
     
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  17. Mylady ‘Gin Gin Darlin

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    But what are you then doing to help group 1 and 2 groups work together? You are happy to state what group 2 wants yet haven’t offered a suggestion of how you think group 1 could fit in with that. Maybe instead of this whole one sided debate, both sides actually think of ways to make things work for all. If group 2 thinks outside their own comfort zone, how could these sort of suggestions or irks of other players in group 1 be addressed that still benefits all parties. There shouldn’t be groups, or a need to take sides.

    It’s all theoretical conversations and ideas of things that could be changed or implemented anyway, as at the end of the day it’s the devs who will decide what is good feedback and suggestions to take onboard, and in that sense everyone’s opinions matter and no suggestion should be a bad one. If that’s not the case, then as I said, there’s a controlled narrative, and that’s not healthy for the game.
     
  18. Violet Ronso

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    It is simple, I am happy with the state of the game in terms of gear/buffs/skills, the few things I want changed do not fit in this conversation (new skills, better combo system) so the fact that I really like the current system and have nothing to bring as suggestion, which is why if they could offer suggestions and ideas to help their direction it might help with finding a way to make it work. Saying gear should only contribute to less than 30% of player power without showing how it will affect the other factors does not really work in my head so I am completely against, but show me a way that it could work, I might actually help you find a way to compromise it!
     
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  19. Aetrion

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    Switching builds should primarily be accomplished by the deck system. What glyphs you have in your hand should really ultimately determine what your character can do at any given point in time, because that's where you have to really make hard choices. If you try to put too many things at the same time you can't reliably draw glyphs so you're less efficient.

    I would go so far as to say Attunement should be more dependent on how many glyphs from the same school you have in a deck than about what pants you're wearing. I have no problem with people people playing more generalist casters actually, as long as it doesn't get to a point where the most powerful character is always one that simply cherry picks all the best abilities and ignores the rest. The whole point of attunement should be making it so that there is a reward for not neglecting the less powerful abilities of any given tree, not to make it so that magic can't be mixed and matched.

    Yes, having the appropriate weapon and armor on should make a difference, but again, the primary difference is already in what glyphs you have access to. They could just give all the magic trees a Staff/Wand technique that you can't use if you're not wielding one.

    I understand that it's tangential to the topic, but it is a significant part of the harm that's caused by shoving more and more power into gear. People can argue all they want that you don't need to spend real money to buy gear, but it doesn't change the fact that you can in SOTA, and that's simply dirty in a game where the majority of a character's power isn't earned on an individual basis. Yes, it's possible to earn your gear in SOTA, but it isn't a requirement. Someone can simply give it to you or you can trade real money for it. The best methods of raising money ingame also aren't a test of your combat prowess and adventuring chops, which makes the quest for power extremely unsatisfying in SOTA. This is a damn fantasy game, let me get stuff done by wits and fury.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    I'm trying to find a good metaphor, it's not coming. So I'll just say I hope that good ideas or discussion about the core problem continue, to me gear buying and selling is just a side topic that's diluted the rest of the thread to the point where it's lost its focus.

    Oh I know, it's like talking about one of the crappy side effects of a disease. Ok, that side effect sucks, but really the point is the disease, how to cure it, avoid it, recover from it, etc.

    So a discussion about the chemical composition of a potential cure for cancer that keeps going back into the cost of bed space in hospitals is two different, legitimate conversations, but combined it becomes a watered down mess.

    And once they get to that spot, I usually unfollow the post.
     
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