Not everyone wants their dungeon to be a farmland

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vladamir Begemot, Nov 4, 2019.

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  1. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    id love to see a system simular to the short lived EQ Landmark. They had it so that you could create triggers for the spawns. I had made a mr. meices box. where there was a button and on click it spawned another mob. the mob was friendly and spoke when created. after clicking X times though they would turn to non friendly and attack. Or I had a gift box that was in my room. when a player other then myself opened the box out of curiosity it spawned guard in the hall outside the door so when they left the room the guard would get them. Triggers are awesome. some were simple if like events. if door1 open then do this. I do hope at some point our tools get that complex.

    In the mean time though GM ability to go invisible and being able to drop spawns in areas allows for the same with out all the programming. or have prescripted npc's or allow even spawners to use scripts to speak out things before they turn would be awesome. I had a room with a boss and a chest. the boss on death unlocked the chest. the boss with frozen in a statue state and on click of the chest a lady would appear and walk into the room telling you to get away from the chest she then commanded the boss to seize the intruders and both flagged to attack. after the chest unlocked and players got the loot I provided.

    One day @Chris if we can get this level of things some of us will push the limits and most likely make stories that are better then what could already be in the game. I think this is where a gate keeper needs to be like that of the potions etc so that idea have to be approved through control to prevent garbage. that is what failed landmark. there was some great creators but there was some extreme terrible ones and no control over it...

    Then if there are stellar content created by players it can be shown and perhaps a rating system. or as Chris mentioned perhaps the good stuff the devs will do a pass over it to add xp and loot rewards.

    I can tell you that if I have the tools I will make content people want, I would be more happy as a quest maker then a player, as I get my enjoyment out of building and peoples reactions to what I make.
     
  2. Magnus Zarwaddim

    Magnus Zarwaddim Avatar

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    Great ideas all around.

    I just wanted to touch on exploits in regards to loot. The problem is that if you allow loot tables that are generated by the system, then people will just endlessly farm their or other's dungeons for loot. Neverwinter Online's Foundry system had a real big problem with this, where people would endlessly farm a dungeon and get a lot of loot (in this case, Astral Diamonds, the in-game currency). This forced the developers to shut down the Foundry for a long period of time, if I'm recalling the incident correctly. This was, I think, the result of short-sightedness. It seems obvious, in hindsight, that allowing people to access a player-made dungeon where the loot was generated by the system without limits (more on that below) was an invitation to exploitation. Essentially, the mechanics of getting loot were the same as out in real dungeons or zones - but they missed the obvious fact that those required a lot of time to plow through, whereas player-made dungeons were generally smaller in size and thus allowed people to endlessly farm in a relatively short amount of time.

    If this is a major concern, then why not take loot generation out of the "system", even if just keeping mediocre loot (regs, mats, small amounts of gold)? In other words, instead of having standard or nerfed loot tables, create a player-loot table. This player-loot table will only contain what the dungeon owner places in it, but will still rely on RNG as to what is dropped. First, it is not endless - a player has to craft/buy/dump loot they garner into the system. When the system is not replenished only the mediocre loot will be given (regs, mats, small amounts of gold). This could prevent the type of exploits we expect to see in player-made dungeons. Theoretically, the dungeon owner could just farm his own dungeon or let his friends do so, but that would make little sense.

    Another form of limiting exploits that I sort of support is limiting the amount of entries you get tp go into or the amount of time you spend in a player-made dungeons. This is a big challenge as you wouldn't want to penalize someone who has RL to deal with, then tries relogging in only to find they are locked out. Likewise you don't want to lock someone out who is trying to get through a dungeon but can't because of difficulty. These are just real simple examples, and there are likely many scenarios where you don't want to lock people out who are not just trying to exploit. However, by forcing the owner to fill the loot table, this might not even be necessary. As an alternative, I would support the idea of gaining access based off of some type of reward - maybe a pre-quest that the owner sets up (getting a key, obtaining an item, etc.).

    I am likely missing something in the equation, so please let me know if I've got this wrong.
     
    Vladamir Begemot likes this.
  3. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    I think the loot table is enough.
     
  4. Floors

    Floors Avatar

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    Dungeons are yet another example of a system that was started and then they stopped on it without finishing it. Instead of starting other things like LUA which inevitably will end half finished, just finish what you started. Focus is the problem with the game, Chris spends too much time in Despair getting focus drained apparently.
     
    Sulaene Moon likes this.
  5. Belladonna Rose

    Belladonna Rose Bug Hunter

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    i like the idea of the GM being ghosted and all but i dont want the experience dependent on that person having to be there for it to work. I like the idea of folks being able to go to the dungeon anytime they choose and have a good time. Its the adventure that is key here. Setting up dungeons for RP events , quests or whatever. This would be the fun part.
     
    Feldon Grimshaw and Spoon like this.
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