Houses are in limited quantity? ? (Dev) Replied

The Markee Dragon interview actually helped resolve some of my questions. Was a good interview.

 

So housing isn't intended to be a free -or- guaranteed thing. It's not like that in real life either, although a lot of us are spoiled into thinking it is. Don't think there aren't plenty of avenues to secure a living space for yourself in game - if that is your path it's there. However, by using a system like this the game enables a lot more depth due to the emerging elements. Once you do acquire a house and move up the social latter to better accommodations, it will be something to be proud of!

Not everyone will have a large house inside a popular town - however you might, and that's a big deal! Making you work for your rewards ensures you will enjoy them more once you get them!

UO had by far the best housing system ever implemented in an MMO - houses were very expensive but owning one was rewarding and added so much to the game. Also - the emergent game play of size/location vs cost analysis and trade added a new aspect to game play.

 

During the most recent video that was online Richard said that housing would be limited and special. I took this to mean that for example that there would be 100 free spots in cities and 1000 spots in villages and once they were gone they were gone at least until the next chapter. Richard also stated that pledging and making sure you had a house would be worth doing. Again I took this to mean if there were 100000 of us playing it is very unlikely we would be able to all have a little house of our own.

I agree with other people who say they want to own a house. It was also an intrinsic part of OU. It was where you kept your stuff, met up with your friends and sold the things you've created. If there is no guarentee I will get a house will I be forced to sell my items on an auction house? Does limited housing mean there will be no carpenter type skill because there is no point me making chairs if the market is very small. He also mentioned about people being able to make their own creations into for example paintings. It's not something i'd par-take in because i'm a talentless nerk but if i don't own a house there would be no call for me to and also a limited market to sell them too.

Also if there is an auction house system for those of us who don't own houses doesn't that devalue the house to the point of pure status symbol? I could wonder from house to house looking for a bargain or I could simply go to the auction house and see swords of various prices and purposes for example.

I mean this could be got round by for example maybe having a shopping Mall style place. I don't own a house\shop but i can rent a vendor who would sell my goods for me but I fear this would end up being more annoying than positive and one of the joys of UO was stumbling on a shop in the middle of no where that sold the cheapest chairs in the game and who doesn't love a cheap chair after a tough walk?

 

This is what I took from the most recent video.
1) Introduction & history-gaming industry, Shard of Avatar and Lord British.
2) Publishing issues and need for kickstarter
3) offline vs. multiplayer (selectable multiplayer)
4) Merchants
5) Persistent world - 1 shard
6) Dual Scale Map choice
7) Running persistent world on your own computer-alot of issues here but I dont want to digress
8) Owning your own home-real estate to be purposely limited
9) Risk to player- no solid answer on this or pvp as issues are still up in air
10) Use of Unity engine and render pipeline.
11) 1 concept artist and modeler on staff so creating game is slow going
12) Expected release of game October 2014 with alpha and beta to be by end of 2013.
13) Attributes of swords & armor question lead into combat systems. 1 popular choice is diablo style, other is traditional MMO of loading shortcut bar and third which they are currently leaning to is some type of card game era style where you preload certain types of skill trees before combat. Didn't sound particularly well fleshed out and leads to all sorts of questions which I dont want to digress here.
14) Money in game. there will be gold but they are also considering Real money transactions which again while maybe inevitable is a Pandora's box.
15) Leveling-similar to UO online of skilled based.
16) We will only be allowed 1 character slot as he believes that we shouldn't be able to switch between good, evil characters that we should live with consequences of our actions,
17) Was asked question about transferring characters from UOonline to Shroud of Avatar. He didn't actually answer the question and since he has no rights to UO online it seems unlikely. What he did say was this was the "spiritual successor" to it and would love if groups/guilds/clans of UO similar to the Syndicate would use this game as a "beachhead" and come to this game and he would build a city for them and other groups. I find this particularly amusing and ironic since he just got through saying that housing would be special and rare and now he's all for making whole new cities for large guilds that would come to the game...which leads me to housing of this thread and the final comments of the Host and Lord British and I'll let you read and decide for yourself what to make of it....as I definitely have my thoughts but I'll wait.

Host-"Since this is game still in funding and on kickstarter and I see someone just posted the project here in chat, if you guys have made it this far into this show then you?re obviously interested enough to put down a few bucks to guarantee yourself a spot in the game, I think that there?s $30 dollars slots that are still available or maybe $33 slots."

Richard Garriott-"I think it is $33. $33 is the minimum entry at the moment and by the way, obviously any pledge $33 is a perfect way to get the game. What you are really doing is pre-buying the game at a discount at a pretty good discount. The $60.00 price point will be more normal when the game goes live. But that vote of confidence allows us to really proceed more quickly and strongly here to the finish line, so we?d much appreciate that."

"And then of course since you mention it I have to put out a pitch for saying at least do and those who can afford it and I know many can?t but if you can afford it do think through the property ownership because again if you go back to UO, property ownership became one of the most speculatable real money transactions you can do."

Host-?I made a lot of money in that market.?

Richard Garriot-?Even though we know we are asking people to give us a fair amount of money to come in and own one of these early house deeds, this game?s real estate will be more rare and special then they were in my previous work and so it is possible, I?m not sure we would literally block, where it would be where we would sell out, literally all of the real estate. But we could get there, in that you know we?ve already done a count of all the cities and all the towns and villages that we intend to put on the first map when we release it. That is what you see in the kickstarter, that block of real estate. So if that all sells out, then there won?t be much if any left when we launch the game and if there is demand then we might be able to build one, two, three more villages in the woods hither and yon but were not going to be interested or willing to build villages you know nonstop, square to square to square all across the continent that won?t make much a very interesting place to play. So anyway real estate I think will be a good investment.?

 

With respect to the towns dedicated to groups, I don't think he meant that that group would own the town, but rather that the town would be named after them. I have an open question on the Crowd Funding forum on this topic, seeking clarification, since my group, the KGB (Knights of Glory and Beer) are interested in seeing what this entails.

 

I also watched the Marquee Dragon interview (and agree it was very informative). But it did prompt me to come here and voice my concern as well. I don't HAVE $500 to insure I get a house. But I don't want to stay homeless forever either. I do remember in the beginning of UO, it took me perhaps 6 months to save up for a one room shack on the top of Moonglow. And that was fine. Of course my last house cost me 40 million but I had the honestly earned gold to buy it. I just want to make sure there IS housing available (even in the middle of nowhere) when I can afford it (with game gold).

I realize we'll all be starting over with little or no gold in the bank but I want to make sure that I can have what I consider the most important feature in the game FOR ME. I want my garden (which RG said we would have), my house and my vendor(s). And as my wealth grows, I do understand he says we can "pack up the house" and move it to a better location.

Has there been any mention of how items will work within the houses? Free movement, lock downs, security? Or is that still being determined?

And does December 2014 seem like an eternity to anyone else???

 

Keep in mind that there will be thousands of village homes available. Only 192 people have secured village housing as of right now. Plus the world will always be expanding and as the game grows whole new landmasses will open. If you are willing to save and work for it you should not have a problem getting your home.

There has not been any information on how things will work in the house. Keep in mind the Alpha will start December, 2013 so you'll at least get a taste if you contributed

 

According to the last article mentionning that all available housing spot counted/planned are the kickstarter one... that sum up to around 2500 lots... right now, a very small amount of those are pledged.

What I would like to see is a personal house, not visible/interactable by other unless they are your guess, not shop, not anything, but just a place to store and decorate... It would ensure some market for premium/rare decorating stuff, allow everyone that want to own a house, but without any benefit that will definetly rely on real estate based on real-world money to enjoy the basics "private" housing.

Some group of people are already taking of replacing some 100$ pledge for multiple 33 + 1x500, etc... which defeat the KS purpose by doing a zero-sum with the same money...

 

Lots of good information and questions came from this little post I started.. I'm sure as we all learn more then we can start answering the questions that have been asked here..

A question that I've hoped would get answered still hasn't so I'll ask it here and maybe someone can throw me a bone?

Hard to know exactly which video I saw this in but somewhere I thought it was stated that along with the city, village and town houses that there would also be a type "House Deed" that we can buy with real money that we could then place or re-deed and re-place where ever there was available space for it.

This might be a similar type house or deed that those pledging $500 on KS are getting.. but I'm pretty sure what I heard would be available for allot less than $500 and would be something we could buy once the game releases. Assuming its not $500.. maybe $50 or $100... then I'd be cool with buying one to insure I'd always have a house no matter where I wanted to place it..

This type purchasable house deed would be for bigger houses or houses with special accommodation like a add on shop or who knows the differences between these and the city/village/town houses but mainly I think so we could move them around the world opposed to being non-movable.

but... the second question on top of that is wondering if there would always be available housing space to place this type house.

 

<i>"somewhere I thought it was stated that along with the city, village and town houses that there would also be a type ?House Deed? that we can buy with real money that we could then place or re-deed and re-place where ever there was available space for it."</i>

If you purchase a lot now on Kickstarter, you'll be able to move to a different lot in the future. You won't be forced to stay in your initial lot choice. Your building moves with you as far as I understand and this new lot would be tax free.

Without purchasing a "deed" on Kickstarter, you'll be able to find vacant lots in-game, but the lot won't be tax free nor will they be unlimited. It looks like pledge deed packages will be sold after Kickstarter has ended, but they will be more expensive than they are now. Housing may look expensive now, but I can assure you it isn't going to get any cheaper.

 

I don't think I've seen anyone talking about buying or gaining the actual Lots.. You appear to understand what you're saying except you are wording it wrong. It's not the actual LOT that you get with the $500 pledge but in fact it's the actual HOUSE Deed that you can then place on any available LOT... Wording but still means different if one pays attention to such things.

I don't even think Lots have Deeds....

....KS Citizen....

Stake your claim! Gain a Rent Free Village Level House Deed that you can pick up and place on any open Village Lot in the game. This Village House proudly displays a special Founder Level plaque for all to see.

 

If I cannot own my own house because of limited quantity, that would be tragic and mistaken. Available Housing should be one of the MAIN concerns in this game. I want my own house.................... for there being nearly 15,000 backers, 2500 houses is not enough. there needs to be 15,000 available house plots

 

Via Esham_the_unholy
Here is an idea for housing. Keep the city housing and also the village housing. But to make room for the thousands of possible players to have a home do something like they used to do in Asheron?s Call. Do instances of player housing. It?s basically an area near a city or village (lets say a stone arch). Once a player walks through the arch then it will give you the option to choose a ?zone/instance? and it tells you how many housing plots are available or allows you to enter it. This would keep the land uncluttered yet give an almost unlimited amount of player housing. So basically a nice scenic area with maybe 50 different plot sizes in each instance? Just an idea?

Also make the housing instances different for each town/village to allow people to have a choice in what kind of area they want their house in?

 

I may be wrong, but isn't it the case that even if you buy one of the high tiers and get a tax-free house, you still have to find a plot to build it on?

I worry about the tax free houses though. Isn't the whole point of the tax system to make sure the housing plots go to active players?

 

I've been so busy reading up on what types of sandbox features the game will have that I haven't seen anything about a taxing type system. It makes sense though and I have no problem with the concept but I'd think it makes more sense for the village, city and town houses since these will be in ideal locations with tons of player traffic and likely most ideal for houses made into shops. So as a way to charge these home/shop owners for having such good sales traffic then they will pay taxes to keep these houses in these locations.

I'm curious though in regards to houses that are placed outside of towns, city's or villages.. Perhaps someone wants to place their house out in a forest or near a lake or near a mountain or somewhere that few other people will come by. I don't even know if housing lots will be available in areas not in city's, villages or towns, but I hope we can have houses in such places and I also hope since these locations won't have tons of other players constantly wandering by then these locations might not be so heavily taxed if taxed at all..

 

"I worry about the tax free houses though. Isn?t the whole point of the tax system to make sure the housing plots go to active players?"

With no more than 1,470 tax free homes divided among 5-7 maps eventually, I don't think there is anything to worry about. You may be partially right on the point of having taxed homesteads though, but another reason is to provide a sink for the economy. When economies have to much money pouring into them and not enough draining from it, you end up with an enormously wealthy economy and end up losing balance and struggle. Everything becomes too simple and all done instantaneously. There is no real game play, it's all just activity.

 

(I'm a little hot tempered about this subject right now because it means a lot to me.. so bare with me.)

I'm really finding it terribly difficult to read these forums on IE8, which I am forced to use at work.. so I apologise for not reading all the posts..

I just wanted to go on record to state that I am also in the boat of "If I can't get a house early on, I will not be playing the game". Before today, I was under the impression that there would be enough housing for at least the number of backers on KS.. so around 15 to 20 thousand.. and then that would be expanding later to accomodate more people as more people joined the game.. however now it is becoming more and more clear that there will only be a few thousand AT MOST during the launch period.

This is simply unacceptable and not inline with what is appropriate to people paying for the game. It's like selling tickets for a carnival and then only allowing 10% of the ticket holders to ride on all the rides.

Unless this gets changed, I will be removing my pledge and moving on to other projects. This is THAT important to me as a feature.

Oh but you can pay a "reasonable" amount now to get a house.. in which day and age is $500+ a reasonable amount for a piece of virtual property in a game that isn't even finished yet? Yes, it's tax-free and that's what makes it worth the extra money.. however, for those of us less fortunate than to be able throw the down payment of a car away on games, however who could infact afford a monthly subscription.. it seems a bit out of synch with what is a reasonable thing.

I'm angry.. yes.. but only because the very thing that is the most important part of this game is looking like it will be something I will miss out on, all because I am not rich enough.

 

Housing will be there for those who work hard. There will be 1000s of village homes and only a fraction of people will donate. Quit whining until we know more about housing. You could work hard early in the game and get a house. Dont resent the people who worked hard enough in the real world where $500 is reasonable because its really very little money. Especially when you factor all the perks. An active contributer will spend months in the dev forums.

 

I read your response ironman2008, that's all I have to say about it.

 

ironman ... you have the idea !

it is a balance, either work hard in the real world, spend some real money and secure a deed in the virtual world ... OR, work hard in the virtual world, accumulate a lot of fake gold, and do the same thing

i, personally will not be able to play for hours at a time, trying to secure enough gold to later buy a deed would likely never be possible for me ... i chose to support this project at "citizen" level ... for anyone who feels this is unfair i understand, but my bank account currently doesn't ... i've played all these games since 1981, the $500 is a lot for anyone, but it will provide hundreds (thousands?) of hours of enjoyment over several years, i look at it like an investment

best to all, i hear you ... my recommendation will be to allow house owners to rent rooms, or even offer rooms to travelers at no charge, if they so choose ... let the game evolve, i think the community is going to be very close &amp; respectful, just my 2 cents, peace