What PvP Players can look forward to

Actually not back at me, you are saying there should not be rewards at all for PvP but all rewards should come from PvE and that is not balance. No one said PvPers should get more than "everyone" else, yet it seems you think PvEers should get more than anyone else. What about the crafter that does not want to PvE or PvP. Same for the Role Player that does not want to shed blood buts wants those rewards? Well guess what, in your world they have to go PvE!!!! So no, you are incorrect in your assessment. There should be rewards in PvP with Power, just like in PvE. If there are no rewards in PvP then there is no balance, because guess what you can go PvP like a PvPer can go PvE!!! HA!

 

Your statement makes no sense, no one is talking in a racist manner or beating anyone from any certain race. Maybe you should re-read the post bud, follow your own advice. I said BOTH types of play got items of power = balance. If neither side does then it does not matter does it? Point is PvPers should not have to PvE to get gear if PvEers don't have to PvP to get gear, that is balance.

 

PvE is the game; it's the world that everything takes place in. If a role player wants to get any gear at all then they need to play the game. Role Play is a play style, just like PvP is a play style. No extra reward (besides what the game provides) for either as they are a choice in the game environment.

PvP has NEVER been proven to be more difficult or more challenging than PvE. It's far too random and inconsistent to even try to judge. There should be no extra rewards just because you like to bash other players instead of the environmental challenges in the game. Once again....

Back at ya!

 

You should bone up on the rules of conduct for the forums....

 

I PvE and Pvp. I can't see playing a game that overwhelmingly catered to one or the other.

PvP is more difficult exactly because of how random it is. There is more pride associated with defeating a worthy human opponent. There should be more shame in defeating an unworthy one. However, PVP is it's own reward. A leader board is all most Pvpers need..something to feed the ego.

PvE is also challenging but in very different ways. The achievements for me come from financial or item rewards. It is a practice of learning the mob, it strengths its weaknesses and the best tactics to use. I find this challenge has a life span. Once you have that nailed you are down to high end PvE bosses where group cooperation and coordination is required and PvP. These are the end games for vets.

I should need to craft or PvE to get money and gear to PVP. I should need to PvE low end mobs to get gold and gear and meet the people to high end PvE bosses.

I think there is plenty of evidence that most players in the world prefer PvE. That being said I think there is a large market of players out there who also like PvP. Please notice I said "also like". Many people like both..almost no-one likes griefing.

I played UO pre and during trammel, and I play on UOF now. It is / was the uncontrolled griefing that wrecked UO. Legit PK's were rare and honestly added a great part to the game. It was the thieves and jerks that ruined it. Believe me the same arguments are still being had on the free shards today.

I would like to point out that they also changed the looting rules because another HUGE problem were the blue PvE looters. That's right... PvErs were part of the problem.

People keep trying to force it completely one way or the other..based on PvP vs PvE when the more important question is:

"What are the social and game mechanic consequences for negative behaviors?..all of them?"

If these consequences are done correctly the PvP vs PvE conversation all but disappears. Deterrents = very low pk/thief/looter population = little affect to PvE. The rest of the PvP is not going to occur around a bunch of mobs...that interfere in regular/ faction/guild/pvp = little affect to PvE.

We need to be focusing on the deterrents for all poor behavior and not get caught up on the drama that UO left us with.

 

My statement makes perfect sense. You used PvEer as a group identifyer, and then assigned a straw-man viewpoint to this phantom group, so that the evil PvEers could be demonized.

 

Now I'm not really taking 1 side or the other here but I just interpret the premise behind your point differently to what you obviously do.

I would say that everyone has the opportunity to gain PvP rewards, some people just don't want to do that. But, the opportunity does exist for everyone!

PvE focused players and crafters will get rewards from their gameplay that PvP could get but would miss out on to as they want to go to war instead. I am sure there will be events RPers benefit from which non-RPers will never get.

My point is that anyone and everyone can partake in any of the game facets they choose to. Choices come with consequences.

Now what I do agree with you in is that the rewards which come from any part of the game should be equal to what the other aspects grant. This is tricky, no doubt, but it should certainly be the aim!

 

Disrespectful? How exactly is what I said an indication of respect or disrespect?. Its a commentary that there should not be exclusive PvP rewards. I stand by that statement because it is correct. Special gear for pvpers is ridiculous.

If you choose to take some kind of offense to it somehow, that's up to you, I don't really care.

 

So anyway! lets lighten the load before the mods whip out there ban hammers!

 

Personally, I ll gain nothing in PvE. I'm allergic to PvE.

It's still my choice, and I do not ask to have all that PvE players will have.

LADY INN, You take people for idiots.

 

That's my point

 

For cons, the PvE player should not expect to have everything PvP player can have.

 

More so that everyone should be able to participate in whatever aspects of game play the choose and be rewarded appropriately and equivalently for their efforts.

 

Or else, as for My Lady Linnessa's logic, PVE items should be ALL available to PVP player.
I guess Our lady is in favor of full loot?

 

So what your saying here is that PVP should be the reward in itself, our game style is our reward? BS! Its more dangerous in PVP than it is in PVE, you can argue that till your blue in the face and ill just call you a smurf! There is no way in Britanny that PVE can be just as hard as PVP, in PVP you are fighting a real living person that can make decisions at the split of a sec, while PVE creatures elves have to follow a mechanic! But i think this is just the same ole rehashed argument between PVP/PVE that is never ending and has no closure so you can go ahead on down that same road we did from the start of the forums here! Its not a solution to anything, just another firestarter! Between PVP and PVE

 

But you as a PVE have mechanics that are set by the game dragon moves here then moves there then goes away for a bit and then comes back,,its a series of mechanics designed for that particular creature! You cannont however determin what a real living person will do, that is a proven fact.

 

I liked this because it did bring up a lot of facts, it was written well, there are some things i dont agree with in this post here, but to each their own! i respect what you believe as long as it is not forced upon me the PVP. I also had characters in UO that were not PVP and just did the PVE aspects of the game, a solution to this whole PVP/ PVE dilemma is having at least 2 characters. Once you pick PVP or PVE that particular character cannot change to one or the other at will it should be permanent, example; at beginning of character creation you HAVE to choose PVP or PVE. per character.
Most people never knew that my Blue and my Red were played by the same person, I had one set of PVP friends and one set of PVE friends. So the benefit of having an anonymous character was when i was with PVE friends, if i knew reds were going to be heavy in a certain area, i could warn the PVE they probably Shouldn't go there, When i was on my red i knew where certain blue people were at that talked * to us for whatever and challenged us PVP then ran into blue territory during battle so we could not follow them, and i could say hey i know where this guild is at we could hang out at their place and when (that particular person came out) surprise attack! OoOoOoO, now if their guild mates jumped in to protect that blue they were also attacked! A lot of the times from what (i experienced) in game, a lot of the blue people brought this upon themselves, but never told the guild what they did to make them a target, and if the guild was anything of a decent one, most of the time the guild would have not allowed that particular behavior in their guild. Then there are the few PKs that are asses that just go out and attack the weak an innocent brag and boast. those are the particular PKrs that i would hunt down and eventually kill.
So basically if we had 2 different characters and we could chooses PVP and PVE, then the person who is curious about whether or not they want to play PVP or PVE would have a way of checking it out! If all else fails and you don't like PVP or PVE you could have 2 PVE or 2 PVP, the benefits of that would be one of your characters could make armor. gather etc. for the skills of the other. Personally i think that would be the best option when it comes to PVP and PVE.

(Never bring a complaint to the table without at solution) - some guy who writes quotes of business


* edited for language - Koldar

 

Actually, thats what the Devs have said on the record in a video that I know we've discussed. PvP is its own reward. They may tack on the disclaimer *subject to change, but its out there in the public field, just a month or so ago.

PvP having additional rewards is fair enough, as is PvE having its own set of rewards. They're both separate and similar playstyles with aspects that cross over. (Whacking things usually) But what I will fight against, and I'm sure that some people on both sides of the fence don't want, is whats stereotypical of most MMOs nowdays where PvP is the path of least resistance and ezy mode to victory, with the entitlement mindset of no damage to gear from PvP death, and that you get rewarded with the best gear for standing around AFKing. Given the nature of this game, I don't believe the second will be much of an issue (more likely to get you ganked) and from the cries of 'Think of the Economy!' from the crafters, I don't think the usual no damage to gear from PvP death will happen either. Most of the PvP players I've dealt with here, and the conversations I've followed seems to indicate the majority is more mature than those in the other games I've played.

But if you sometimes wonder why PvE players are so touchy at times, its because of having experienced the PvP players in WoW and other games with their sense of entitlement and arguments of equal reward for less risk/effort. It may have been completely different in UO, and the players here may not be the same, but it really can be hard to shake those past experiences. I'm more than sure that some players feel the same about PvE in other games, and take those experiences to the table. Everyone is tainted in ways by the past.

And you're right, we can argue to we're blue in the face over whats more challenging, Ark Angels or other players, farming in a zone filled with environmental hazards and killer mobs, or cutting down trees in a quiet forest where you can get jumped by PKers, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. People find different things challenging and fun. Fight another player the first time, you're unsure what they're capable of, fight them a second time, see what additional moves they have you might have missed the first time, fight them a third time and they're predictable. Just like mobs. And both can occasionally surprise you with a shield to the face, healing themselves to full and (at least one the mobs part, haven't run into many players that do it) a suicide bomb as a present. People will just prefer one, the other, or even both.

My greatest fear for PvP is if it turns out that the usual cookie cutter mindset finds its way over here. The deck system may add some randomness to fights instead of the usual faceroll rotations, but if people just keep using the same suites of skills, then PvP will become far more homogenous and predictable than PvE. And those of us that become known, both in the forums and public, will be more likely to have people develop counters especially for their playstyles, or other players aping them as they consider that to be 'the best way to play'. I've seen games where you there are limited selection skills paths and ones where you were able to have every single skill in the game, and they both devolve into people using the same two or three weapons, and the same few attacks, and just facerolling. Heads you win, tails you die. And it both bores and annoys the heck out of me.

I will give you that PvE encounters can be boring, but I chalk that up to laziness and catering to the Lowest Common Denominator. Having experienced some truly superb challenges on the PvE front, I keep hoping to find something that matches those opponents, and to be pretty blunt, most RPGs don't tend to offer that. So I tend to play for story instead, while I keep looking for the game with That One Boss. I think I've expressed in various PvP threads what I really seek on the PvP side, and thats the superb thrill of a full scale battle for something that truly matters and has an influence on the world, as opposed to fighting over a piece of wood. I don't want a shallow experience. There has to be something more. (insert Disney song about 'A Whole New World' or something similar here)

As with all things, we'll just have to Wait And See. At least we're getting auto-attack for a Pre-Alpha sometime in the next while. @_@; Can then see about working out some of the tension around here at times.

 

I also want to add just for the record that not all PVPrs go out looking for the weakest opponent! Typically my play style is the one that hunts down those individuals that cause grief, if you want to call me a PKr becuase i kill off the "badguy" the one that causes a lot of stress then so be it at that point yes i just killed a player! so call it as you wish, But not all of us PVP go out and look for the weaker people and gank them! Most of us PVP people do just fine attacking each other. It heightens our gameplay as does the following of a story line for those PVE. Its like in the real world, some of us are cut out to be warriors (military etc..)and others crafters (people that make equipment for us) they both work together PVE and PVP. some how that just works out Im a warrior but i need to eat, so i go to the grocer (gatherer, farmer) to get food, that same grocer has problems with people robbing them (pkrs) i as a pvp go and protect them and thier groceries. I would like to see a system where both PVE and PVP can be on the same field working together.

 

I want to make two points about these statements.

First, "PvE rewards" are just mandatory to play the game, simply because it will certainly be the only way to get XP. If you allow players to level up by fighting each other, you open the door to AFK whacking a friend to get your skills up (ie macroing), and this is basically a way of rewarding people for NOT playing the game.

My second point comes from the fact that Darkstarr once said (and I'm sorry I can't find the quote right away, i believe it was on IRC) that PvP specific rewards, if they existed, would only be PvP related items. And this bugs me because what it says is : "you're good at PvP already ? Great, here's a sword that makes you even better at it". It creates a "snowballing effect" that makes it even harder to make the first step in the PvP world.

So my conclusion is : sure, get some kind of reward from PvP, just don't make it too specific ; money (ofc, but not at a way higher rate than monster killing), items (not specific, let's say full/partial loot of regular equipment), or decoration (here you can make it unique, like skulls, heads on spikes or a nice bloody axe to show everyone that this house belongs to an efficient PvPer.