if I had a free wish - forget about the overland map (and reconsider the course of the game)

Generally, we was never a big fan of this s-sacle-maps-system.
I would have preferred to explore a big, open world, to decide of my own how I get to point of interest; for example when I see a mountain-peak far away to walk there and climb the mountain (in a seamless-way); or to swim in a river in order to reach the beach, rather than using the road.

(it like in a space-sim : landing on a planet in a seamlingless way seems not too important - however, still many gamers want that feature [and Elite Dangerous will inclusde this feature sooner or later - David keeps his word])

Many RPG give us this possibility - even in Ultima 9 (which I have started to play again, while waiting for SotA) this was possible.

So - I already was disapointed when I heard about this 2-scale-map some months ago. But I alsways was of the opinion that the overland-map is just a kind of "zoomed out"-version of the 3D-world. That would have been - let's say "accepatable". The current version of the overland is that not.

So - if I would have a free wish:
I would suggest to forget about the "overland map" and the 2-scale-map-system completly. Maybe the world will the be a bit smaller, maybe the game will be release a few months later and the the hardware-requirements will be a bit higer. All that would be fine for me.


So my recommendations to Lord British:
Schedule a meeting with your team and discuss with them the possibility to change the game to a 1-sacle-map-game.
I am quite sure that it would be possible if everone supports this idea (even your DEV-team might find a lot of reasons and explanations why it's not possible) - it is possible.

Now, you still have the time to change the course of your game. And the peple back it because the believe in you. Listen to them - and the finished game will be the spirtual Ulitma-sucessor for which the fans and your have been waiting for a long time.

Make it happen!

 

As much as I would also like to see it change, it is not going to happen. Hopefully they at least re-work the overland map to be a 3-d avatar represented version. The map, hex, and flag one we got in R4 was underwhelming.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with bindhamk on this aspect. The world travel is very disappointing to me. One of my favorite aspect of Ultima online was exploring the world seeing what new things I could do or find. I find the 2-scale map restrictive and unflattering.

 

Yea, no more exploring a world. Just shoving around a "shield" on a brown, depressing, cardboard-map... So much for the exploration aspect of an RPG and living in a world. Now we are a living on a crayon map...

 

It's probably important to separate the design concept from the implementation. When I started with R4 and saw the map I thought what an awful idea. I was use to a one world, free reign movement of the current state of RPGs that I was underwhelmed. Then the designer in me kicked and I thought the idea of using a map to move around the world was intriguing and sort of fresh. Imagine you have this map of a new world and you are actually pulling it out to determine where you want to go next. You plan your route and away you go, travelling about the world. A different idea for world travel.

As to the implementation, I'm not that big of a fan. It is indeed underwhelming, lacking creativity. As a first impression to a new gamer, the graphics lack a sense of appeal. It's probably the 2D nature of the map with cartoon-like images drawn on a map. A 3D-type relief map would probably be more impressive and create a more positive impression.

 

I have to admit the overhead map is a bit rubbish and i did think that we would be able to move from one Hex to an adjacent Hex without having to go into the overhead map unless we wanted to traverse somewhere further, but then if we have the overhead map what is the point of the moon gates? Give us a proper world map to see where we are and where our party members are, keep the moon gates for fast travel over distances like in UO and get rid of the rubbish that is at present the overland map.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the reason this game will not be an open world style a-la UO is simple... not enough time and too much work and $$$ involved. I don't think some of you realize that and I think the developers should just acknowledge it. While I am no programmer, I can only imagine whats involved in creating an entire world of landscape and scenery.

While I do agree with many that too much emphasis was put into the housing aspect, I don't feel the graphics complaints are justified. If anything, these complaints are putting more pressure and distraction on the developers who should be more concerned with making this game fun and playable. Ultima Online is over 15 years old and people are still playing it. What does that tell you about graphics? Gameplay is everything.

At this point in time, I think the team needs to push back the release date (Should not be a big deal to us if the end product is what we've waited for) and continue working to get things right. Obviously, it's going to take more time and money but the other option is to settle for a complete dud of a game and everybody loses. Heck, I don't even think many here would have a problem paying a monthly subscription (if necessary) if the final release of the game was to live up to the expectations.

I believe there is good potential here and it's obviously still a big work in progress but they should reconsider more of the elements that made UO what it was.

 

Yeah let's just ask them to do 20x more work building the world.

 

Nobody is asking them to fill the whole map with storyline driven content or quests, but filling a Hex with landscape and monsters once they have the AI sorted out for the monsters that already inhabit Sota would not be a big deal to do, and being able to freely move from one Hex to another wouldn't be a big deal either. There was masses of land in UO where you could wander aimlessly and kill what ever wild life or monsters you happened across, if in Sota you are just being guided to only certain areas of the world map where there is only stuff of interest happening does not make for an open world feel, but makes for very linear game play.

@tspope
I agree with you that the developers should point out the limitations of what they can do regarding filling out the world map. If they cant fill this world map now, and every year they are going to double the size of the world map as stated, then i am afraid they will find them selves in the **** and sinking fast sooner rather than later.

 

since this is going to be a F2P game, the world/map thing is kinda expected.
if they were going to ask for sub, then yes, I can see a huge improvement in world navigation, maybe even bypass the entire map thing and go with a more persistent world (a la UO or ESO)

however, that is not what portalarium is building and not what we (as founders, benefactors, backers, etc.) are buying into, eh?
F2P game need to use as little resources as possible, and that includes loverly worlds to explore.
that or we get something like RO2 or some of those other anime-ish games *shivers*

@Rhiannon will kill me.. lol

 

@Kirthag

When you say "F2P game need to use as little resources as possible, and that includes loverly worlds to explore." Isn't that what i asked for when i wrote "Nobody is asking them to fill the whole map with storyline driven content or quests, but filling a Hex with landscape and monsters once they have the AI sorted out for the monsters that already inhabit Sota would not be a big deal to do, and being able to freely move from one Hex to another wouldn't be a big deal either. There was masses of land in UO where you could wander aimlessly and kill what ever wild life or monsters you happened across" Sota will have to have some persistence to it for us to be able to have persistent housing, and shops, and being a b2p game does not make me think oh well i kind of expected the rubbish they call an overhead map now because i didn't expect it and it isn't what was proposed for the overhead map earlier on in development. Like i said in an earlier post if they cant fill this map out now then they need to re-think how big the first expansion map is going to be, when and if they finally get around to that.
I think this game has great potential, but the original overhead map could have been pure gold instead of lead gold painted which this one seems to be.

 

SotA is not a free to play game. It is a buy to play game just like Guild Wars 2 for example.

And there are enough f2p games that create beautiful worlds, take a look at Age of Wushu, Neverwinter, Lord of the Rings Online...

 

We spoke many times about this, is the most polemic point of the game, even more than opne pvp I think, because really a very high percent of player didnt like too much that. But RG believe that this overland map is going to work fine, like other new aspects and ideas of the game. Some I like, selective multiplayer is the most interesting for me. This map... I hardly can see it like a nice point, but is going to happend. So, lets pray (and pay ) for a good one.

Maybe is not that bad... In the end we only play in zones in the MMOs, and every zone in the map could be big.

 

Note: I would never stand a chance of killing you. Remember: I am a gardener, tailor, scribe - pretty much in that order. You, my dear Kirthag, are a crazy adventurer, up for just about anything and will undoubtedly talk me into going somewhere in which I end up dead. A lot. I haven't had time to venture into New Britannia this weekend but hopefully there are no "death robes". I acquired enough of those for a RL lifetime.

 

I kind of get the feeling that every comment and reply on this topic is from the perspective of only coming into the game/forms from a few months back.

To properly understand the thought process and design behind this map system you have to realize and understand a few things.

SotA is meant to meet people in the middle between full risk and ******** style game play. People who wanted full risk sandbox world need to be able to interact with other real life players, but ******** style game play needs to be able to access the world without meeting those type of people if need be.

UO started to fail completely when they split the worlds into 2 separate game play styles because the economy couldn't handle it. There is less need for craft and commerce when there is no risk of item loss.

SotA gets around these 2 vastly different game play styles by allowing limited numbers of player interaction within a given map, and by letting the player choose how much online interaction they want to engage. That is why they choose to go with a non open world map design. These topics were debated on heavily throughout the staff and community over the past 2 years, even back when SotA was known as ultimate RPG.

Single player online gives the player access to the online economy and player housing without any interaction of live players, while full online play gives those other players access to your single player content even though they will never physically interact with you, And the only way to do this was with this type of game world.

There are vastly different game play styles out there, and SotA will never be the everything for one person and nothing for the other, but it does the best job out there hitting that middle ground and still giving players way more then 50% of what they would like to see in the game, even if they are on opposite sides of the spectrum from each other.

Its like taking one object at 100% splitting it down the middle 50/50 and giving it to two different people, and each person having 80% of that original item. Magical! =)

 

@Valice

Actually UO continued to climb in subscribers for 3 more years after Trammel was introduced peaking in 2003, UO did not fail when the land mass was split, this is just what the die hard PVPers want others to think, even after Samurai Empire there were still plenty of people playing PVP on Felucca with the new Sampire build. Its all the duping and scamming that killed the economy ultimatly, plus i also think that imbuing played a big part, all trades apart from this became useless afterwards.

 

Kirthag you should know better, this is NOT a F2P game, you have to purchase the game/modules.

 

I think, regarding the map, it would be good to focus on why you want a different map than the one chosen, rather than trying to lobby for a full, explorable world. It has been made very clear by the dev team, since early days that a continuous world is NOT on the menu. We're getting a dual-scale map. Period.

That being said, the map we got and the map we were led to believe we would get are VERY different things.

I would like to sway the dev team back to their original vision, but if those of us who cannot stand the new map, waste or effort lobbying for a continuous world (which simply won't happen) we are weakening our position and giving the devs a reason to ignore all of our arguments.

 

And by not lobbying for changes or reversals of a bad idea we may as well not have a forum in the first place and just make do with whatever id given to us in the game. No one has asked for a continuous world but having said that there will be persistent housing and there will be persistent player run shops and we will have player run persistent towns out in the wilds where housing is allocated. Does this make it like a continuous world ? i think so........What we are asking for is what was originally shown for the overhead map, and that hexes that are in between encounter areas are filled with landscapes, wildlife and possibly monsters so at least we can explore areas that are not just encounter areas, this is not a big ask. Its not like they would have to script X amount of Quests or encounters in these hexes. Which reminds me does anyone now how many quests will be placed into the game before release of Episode 1.

 

Dual scale mapping is fine. I can see how a new town, dungeon or specially timed instance (remember dawn?) can easily be placed into the world. Constant loading everytime a new area encountered is a bit annoying and does break immersion a bit but i dont think everyone is looking for a skyrim or wow clone. I just wish the original vision of the overland map would be revisited. Maybe even giving the group leader an option to control the direction of a party on the map to give some meaning to having a party inbetween instances?