No UI/HUD at all!

After LBs idea of not having health bars etc. in the game and that he wants to show damage directly on the creature to measure how much beaten up it is, I thought about how cool it would be to do away with all of the burdensome and ancient stuff in (MMO)RPGs like an UI/HUD.

Image how much more immersive the game would be if there would be no texts floating around, no bars, no windows etc. You just see the landscape and what is going on - just like in Ultima 7 and 8.

Of yourse you could open up your inventory and paperdoll/status screen etc. But the gamewindow would by standard be totally free of every UI.

This would mean that we would have to rely much more on audivisual feedback for some things. Coughing and sneezing if your hero is sick, limping and bleeding if he or a companion is wounded. If you want to know what time of day it ist, look at the sun or take a look at your watch in the inventory.

There would also not be a chat-window. If you want to chat, a window opens up if you begin typing in your message. A audiovisual effect could mark the arrival of a message for you.

No numbers for damage would float around, cluttering the view, no names for creatures or health bars above their heads (heck, how du you know how much health a monster has anyways, do they all have the same health? How do you know its name?).

No automap - you would have to open the inventory and here click on your map to open up a map.

No skill bar - maybe by moving the mouse to the lower end of the screen could open up a skillbar and the skillbar could be permanently visible during combat only.

How to know when to heal your party members? Either through audiovisual feedback - they bleed, limp and yell for help automatically or during combat and on mousover they could display a health bar which vanishes when the battle is over.

I think no UI/HUD would totally improve the game and the immersion.

 

This is how I hope SotA will not look like:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/wow_raid_interface.jpg

 

LOL ! That is hilarious !

 

Ya, I use my Ret Paladin in WoW as a perfect example of way too many skills, way too many places to look to know what skills to use. And the net result is total loss of immersion.

You can have c/ds, procs, chains, and combos for skills. But make them automatic. So pressing 3 (or 'e') gives best available damage or best available cc/interrupt. This removes all the clutter and lets you feel what your character feels.

You can also take out friendly targeting and drastically reduce network traffic by removing big direct heals. Because you don't need to see everyone's bar all the time. Heals and buffs can just happen to the group around you while you're doing damage.

 

The pick is from burning crusade where they didn't really have specs like they do now. So you generally had points in all three trees. So that paly basically has dps skills, healing skills and tanking skills.

 

This is how it should be.

http://www.hark.com/clips/hpshxvrwgq-your-life-force-is-running-out

even better
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/gauntlet_arcade_game

 

There's always going to be a need for something on your screen.

Im a big fan of combat ui's/huds, that only appear during combat (Best example that comes to mind is Palantir plugin form LOTRO).

Im also a fan of being able to move things off your main screen onto a second monitor.. such as mini-maps to use an example.

-Stile
Guild Leader of Caverns, Dungeons, and Beyond
www.thecaverns.net

 

I'd be open to somebody creating a third party app that handles these things in a separate interface that can issue commands into the SotA game. For example you can have an interface with macros and emotes that you preset and can even drag the panel into a second monitor or open it allong the side of the SotA game window.

That way at least the game itself will be unhindered by junk like that image, but I would still like that functionalty in some way to organize my basic commands (if it's nessisary). Something I can click or use a shortcut key to activate, but is available immediately without having to open a menu (but not interfearing with the visual world) . However they may make the game so that it doesn't need any of that which is fine with me.

We might want to use a certain item like immortality fruit, but since it isn't used all the time why create a shortcut key for that. it would be nice to have a button to click.

 

I almost rather have the game give us a macro system instead of finding third party tools.
Like use healing if health gets below ??, use cure if poisoned, eat food if hungry, etc.

 

Many MMOs I've played allow you to toggle the UI off, but those games also allow you to define a hotkey for every action for which you would otherwise use the UI. If you can remember all the key codes for all your hotbar actions, go for it.

 

I would be much in favor of a simpler, more minimal and intuitive UI such as the OP suggests. That WoW shot is a nightmare.

 

Macros? pffft... anyone that needs macros has no skill

okay.. i did finally have to use some macros for targeting in raids.. but i felt that was just poor game design rather than any need for me to have them.

I really hope the game and combat design for SoTA will eliminate any need or even possibility of wanting to use a macro for anything. You simply shouldn't need them.

From what I'm picturing there will be no skill bar. They have skill runes that come up that you can select to use or combine. I'm not sure how they'll appear but I'm hoping not in a skill bar. I'm hoping it's a system you have to actively decide if you'll use it, save it, or combine it with something else depending on the situation.

From LB's description it sounded like only monsters wouldn't have healthbars. We know our own health well enough to have a good gauge of our own health.

Also keep in mind, we will be able to take cues on the monsters health by appearance, meaning an add-on would be able to show a health bar, it might not be as precise as we are used to but it would still show 3/4 1/2 1/4 marks at minimum.. more if there are more cues.

Minimal UI though would be nice. where we might be tweaking all sorts of things sitting in town (changing our skill bag, equipment, items, skill tree).. but once we are done with that hopefully roaming around will be mostly looking around, and not micro-managing everything.

Raids in WoW always felt to me like, no time to look around at anything, focus on everything else, don't have time to appreciate all the work the artists put into creating the scene/mobs... I played a priest so.. heal, heal heal heal heal.. throw a dot if i can.. heal heal heal...drink the potion heal heal... (and heal, heal, heal, was usually 2-3-4, throw a 5 for the group heals)

 

I definitely want to have a GUI/HUD. I'm okay with it easily being switched off, but having nice graphic elements to help accessibility is a bonus, not a negative.

In the example of the Wow GUI, unless the player is a mouse clicker, he has no need to actually use those addons and GUI layouts. He is using them because he feels they IMPROVE his game experience.

These elements, when done nice and tastefully IMOROVE the game.

I also realize the negative of it, he gets lazy and relies on watching the buffs or such to know when to attack or when to heal.

In some cases it's still good though because it makes the player have to think less about details so that he can indeed focus on what he's ultimately doing.

 

Edit: Disregard this post of mine, I'm a moron, lol

 

There should be no need for macros... They were the result of predictable AI and repetitive grinding. The difficulty for this game is that since it is from a drawn back 3rd person perspective its hard to demonstrate the detail required for a zero hud game. I've always dreamed of a simple system where if you wanted to check your map, press m and the camera would zoom in and your character would pull out a map. Want to check your inventory? Press I, and pull your magical(its the only way everything can possible fit) backpack off your back and open the top and get a view of all of your items. Combat shouldn't require more than the directional buttons, mouse movement and 6 buttons. A jump, roll, climb, block, attack+direction of mouse(determines element for mages, type of slash for warriors, type of volley for archers), finesse(special move's like holy water, oil, potion, etc). Keep what you do simple and focus on the enemy movement and AI. I am far more thrilled with combat where I have to react to the enemy. WOW needs all of those fancy combo moves because the base fighting system isn't satisfying. Give a sword some punch when it strikes and it will be. Swinging a sword and watching an orc get cut in two is more satisfying then a backward flip and 50 slashes that amount to no damage. I derailed my own post haha.

 

I would rather not have any macros at all. Especially in combat or crafting. It just feels cheap.

I don't particularly feel the need for absolutely no HUD.. but only that which is necessary is perfectly fine with me. When I'm in a fight I bloody well want to see my health bar and whatever other information I need to make a good decision as to what I'm going to do next.

As far as mob health though? As RG described what he wants to do it's really only replacing one form of visual information with another. So long as that information is easy to decipher then sure.. but I also see no harm in making it optional.

 

Toggleable HUD ala Baldur's Gate would be neat. Press a button and viola! no HUD.

 

Hi!

What got me interested in the game, beside the truth that it's created by the Creator of the legendary Ultima-Series! , Is the announcement that the gameplay will be more dynamic. Means (as I understood it) No Questmasters and less scripted gameplay.
I think dropping/getting rid of the health bar and the uppoping numbers (for Hits, damage, whatever) would let the gameplay feel more natural. Just think of the Elder Scroll Series! They don't have healthbars and numbers that pop up and a lot of people love the that game-series!

 

In addition to the discussion about the lack of GUI layout, ports to other systems need to be considered at the same time.
I believe that Lord British's idea for visual damage on enemies is more likely to be implemented on the PC because of large, high resolution displays. Portable devices like tablets should be large enough to show enough screen space when scaled. I am not sure if cell phone apps are being developed but those small screens would be hard to use in damage identification.

As far as the GUI goes, if the features are not visible until the players interact with the game inputs this may cause a lot of confusion for new players. Most people are not really in the habit of reading software manuals when they begin a new game and frustrating them with the interface is not a good way to start off. If this style of interface is implemented, a tutorial would really be necessary. I get the impression that the development team wants to make the interaction as smooth as possible for all kinds of players so a "non-existent until action" interface seems unlikely.

 

Well, since I am a bit more Roberts then Garriot fan, I hope Lord British things in thiscase a bit more lile Chris Roberts who developes on a high scale BECAUSE it should be a PC game. And since Shroud of the Avatar will sdupport the Oculus Rift as well it should have graphics where a

Again: Just watch the Elderscrollseries since Oblivion no (big) GUI, good graphics and a natural and open gameplay. I don't want to compare SotA with the Elder Scroll-Games. because I think that Richard Garriot can do better then Bethesda does (and they are not bad at all!!)
So I still root for the "No HUD" I think it makes the game better. And sorry if I just look that discussion from the PC-gamer side, but I think it's damn time, that the PC get's games that suit for it!