To Be Or Not To Be: The Map

But they aren't including both of these. The paper map is a replacement for the zoomed out 3d view we saw. The devs have said so.

So, even if it's just a map, it's all we're getting unless we can change their minds.

 

If nodes are done correctly, harvesters should have to move away from hexes that people are harvesting due to the fact they should be used up around cities as people harvest. I'm assuming(bare with me here) that each hex will have a value of harvestable materials in order to entice players to them. This is easily attainable with nodes within any map scene.

Takes time to move across the world you say? I'm all for that, although if the map icon moves a bit too slow that is an easy fix.

A lot of scenes will look very similar, hopefully they come up with a way to let the system randomly make some scenes using tiling within a 3d environment. Plus some random encounters within them.

If things change with weather/date/time(this was one of the things mentioned during kickstarter) there is an exploration when you enter hexes...do you remember the gypsy camp example? it will not always be there. In the original map it showed a picture for the gypsy wagon onthe map...no reason they couldn't do that same idea with a stylized picture.

The only difference between this map and the other is the actual graphics...they went with a stylized image map instead of trying to make a lot of miniatures.

If I can imagine exploring a world in the older ultimas I'm sure I can explore here.

This is all caveat to the fact they will add those features mind...which is really something we should be pushing for not some basic map system.

 

I agree.
Therefore, if they want to stick with the map (and I hope they reconsider this and bring back the zoomed out 3D view) then the map should have the mechanics of a map. You cannot explore a map and thus the map view should be treated in the same way as in Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate. This would work for a map view. But moving around a flag from hex to hex on paper doesn't work imo.

But I still hope that they bring back the zoomed out 3D view - just in case they won't: make the map a real map.

 

Indeed. Thats what I meant when I said the map seems to have "taken over" the roll of the overland view. From our point of view its not that they "changed" the overland view, rather its that they omitted it altogether.

 

Not really. The only differance is the graphics themselves....styized pop up instead of miniature icons.

 

Not really. The only differance is the graphics themselves....styized pop up instead of miniature icons.

 

I see you point, believe me I do, but taking the OP's illustrations as examples...

This, (dragon notwithstanding):
http://www.gamezone.de/screenshots/...the_Avatar_22_SotA_screenshot_Overland_02.jpg

Is a RADICALLY different perspective from this:
http://ultimacodex.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/overworldmap-1024x554.jpg

In the first one you are seeing only a small slice of the world, rich with detail which visually ties it to the instances proper.

In the second you are seeing....a map. Not that that's a bad thing (I still say we need one), but to be clear it is fundamentally different (not simply different artwork laid over the first example).

Thats why I suggest that in these discussions we be clear on what is a map, what is an overland view, and how/where the two overlap (or dont).

 

So could someone catch me up here? I've not managed to get into any of the releases (I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't talking to my boss directly, and making sure to only release on days/weekends I'm swamped). So I've yet to even see what the game looks like, or what the gameplay is like.

So IS it a fully developed 3D world? Or is it more "Baldur's Gate" where moving to a boundary brings you out to a map?

What's the purpose of the map view?

 

But I think the styles don't fit each other. It just doesn't work for me. It would work if the map would be a map with map mechanics like in Dragon Age but it doesn't work as a substitution for a zoomed out world view like in Ultima 4 or 5. You do not zoom out you look at a map. The break from third person scene view to the stylized paper map is just too big. I feel totally ripped out of the world.

 

It is not a single scale 3D world. When you get to the edge of a hex zone, you are taken out to a map. Whats being somewhat passionately debated right now is that while early sneak peeks showed an overland view rather than a map, in the last pre-alpha (the first one where we got to see anything beyond the instanced hexes) the overland view was replaced with a stylized map. See my previous post for visual examples of both.

 

So it's gone from the fully immersive, massive world of UO, to the sectioned, low content world of Baldur's Gate?

 

You could say so. But you can travel around on the paper map freely which right now feels (and looks) very odd as you move around a flag on hexes that you can "enter" and which you can then explore in a third person view.

 

...

Well, here's hoping they're still just experimenting...

 

I'd much rather go to a region or biome based location system than hexes. If a random encounter shows up then it can pull you into a specialised instance running the event.

 

So question: Can you, as in, is it possible, walk, without going to any sort of map, from one city to the next? Or have they just decided not to create all of that content in between?

 

Nope, there are borders to every scene/hex. When you reach those borders you are transported to the overland map which looks like this:

 

As discussed on the livestream today, they simply haven't (and apparently won't be), building the full world map. So there might be several "grassland" instances, and several "jungle" instances, etc.

These will be recycled across the whole map, whether it's divided into hexes or any other sort of shape, or system. Just FYI for those who didn't hear that today (not that I think it was the first time it's been mentioned).

 

But in theory, they could remove that "tear you out to a map view" thing, and just add some sort of transition, and you could theoretically make the walk? I mean, each hex has a fully developed area?

Edit: Actually, now that I think of it, each hex is probably a square or circular area that isn't to scale at all... So you wouldn't be able to lay them next to each other to have any sort of clean transition... Can't see any other reason they'd have gone with a system like this.

 

Technically it should be possible but not every hex has a fully developed area. There will be a handful of individual hexes which will be loaded randomly when you enter a hex. So if you would walk from hex to hex you would walk through exactly the same areas over and over again.

Special landmarks like cities, dungeons and craters etc. will be individually developed.

It's more of a time/budget issue why they go with this method.

Many of us think that the only way to get a substitution for exploring a world would have been the zoomed out 3D view they announced during the Kickstarter campaign. As the view used the same graphical style as the scene view you got the impression to wander around in a zoomed out view of the world. This gave the feeling of being somewhat able to explore a living world. There were animals roaming around, merchants drove their carts from city to city... everything looked alive and "in line" with the rest of the game. So it would not have been that much of an issue having this dual scale map.

But now they decided to take out the 3D world view and instead us a stylized paper map for overworld travel.

 

Have 2
1) When I double click on a far hex have my flag move to that hex and enter it. As it is now I was standing outside owlshead on the road and double clicked on the cave and it had me enter the road hex I was at.
2) Can my coat of arms be placed on the map flag?