Dont know were to begin

Yeah... That was the response I was expecting.

The comparison is in the promise that was given by Portalarium.

Obviously one cannot compare a partially implemented game to a finished product.

 

Thats a problem I got I have no idea how an Alpha is supposewd to look compared to the end product but as you say from whats being promised to what we actually have and some possible future ideas written in the forums I already have a feeling of disappointment. Lets just hope Im being completely wrong...

 

Something like Mass Effect 3 where SP and MP are completely separate games? I don't see how that would help here. Selective multiplayer is intrinsic to the design of SotA and I still believe it is a good call.

The problem as I see it is that the current releases are flat and lifeless from the perspective of a single player Ultima. But we're not seeing plot, NPC schedules or some of the immersion features we should get by launch. But I also fear that this won't have the level of immersion that I wanted or would expect from an Ultima.

I had hoped the budget would snowball like Star Citizen's, even if not on the same scale. This game needs more backers and more money to throw at development. RG said in interviews when launching the initial KS that he thought he'd need $5 - $7 million to pull this game off with a small team, and that is development budget. Of the $5 million raised, some of that went to Kickstarter fees, Amazon Payment fees. They have to produce and ship physical goods. I'm sure the $5 million is more like $4 million in development budget, if that. At this rate, I don't see them getting $7 million in development budget that they really need unless the community gets the word out and attracts new backers. I really hope Steam Early Access helps.

But instead of complaining (which does nothing productive) offer suggestions to fix the game, and help spread the word so the game can get the budget to improve.

 

No. I mean they should have made one, or the other. Not both. Your statements support this.

Regards,

 

well, the problem 3D brings is a spacial problem -- quite literally. So it is not so much about 3d vs 2d unless you want to talk about spending more money on 3D because of the massive amount more work that brings, which means sucking money from other parts of the game.

And that is even with using the "cheap" models they bought, AND some partial sourcing from the community. They really just dropped the ball on getting the community to help honestly -- a huge pool of untapped resources, and using that for only artwork == ridiculous money spent on development that they dont have.

The data you are all talking about is simply design/structure data -- used by the game logic <--- here is the problem.

This games design is not seemingly *yet???* up to snuff with the open-sandboxy feel that has been promised.

I do not consider decorating my house with upteen junk, open, and sandboxy.

Nope. I am right there with ya. Too little for the level of ambition desired. Start small, grow when you make MORE money, like Star Citizen did. Not start arms wide overpromising and then underwhelm.

I know we keep getting asked to wait, latest one from RG himself, but frankly, wait for what? The design details can surely be shared if they exist. This is an "open" project with community involvement after all?

Even more so come Monday as the very definition of Early Access is all about community inclusion in the development of the game -- Steams policy.

I would have loved to see an ISO version of the game, just to reduce the complexity of making crap in 3D, which I do for a living, and know what extra resource pull that entails.

 

SP and MP features are not fungible assets. People point to the lack of NPC dialogue and blame MP focus. But programmers who are writing the core systems for MP aren't dialogue writers in the first place. They can't just stop writing code for instancing and write dialogue instead. Some of the features are fungible because they both require programmers to code (NPC schedules versus PvP systems for example). But we still haven't seen a full road map of releases. We don't really know the full list of features we're getting at launch of not getting at his point. I'm still holding out hope for a lot of the single player immersion features because we still have time left. We'll see.

I still think the design of selective multiplayer holds great promise. The original Baldur's Gate was the only game I've seen with that type of design. NWN to a certain extent, and both of those were seen as innovative classics.

I mostly play single player offline RPGs and that is my preference. But if they had the budget and ability to pull off a proper single player Ultima that I could also selectively play with other people in a persistent world, that would be amazing. It would be better than a solely single player game.

 

A perfect example of the community crowd-sourcing ball hitting the floor hard.

They could have easily outsourced anecdotal dialogue moments from the community.

They could have filled in the major "lore" pieces, and completely reduced all that fluffy noise to editing checks.

Same for flavor text(s) on items, or maps, etc...

That single thing could have given back hours and hours of other, more focused and directed work, and made members of the community felt more included, making them MORE invested, and more apt to spread the SotA word to others.

 

I think they did drop the ball there, but the Scholars of Novia are getting crowd-sourced books into the game now.

I'd be all for submitting crowd-sourced dialogue if we can pull it off somehow. I can write and write if it can help the game. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

I totally agree, and would also contribute, except =/

Having written an entire asset submission tool for Port, which as of 4 months after handing it off to them, they still have next to hardly any testing and usage (even after they pulled in people to test), they simply seem overwhelmed with anything external.

Its been like that ever since the Heraldry stuff, which is still not remotely close to being in the game.

Had @Bubonic and I not done the radio, I don't think that pledge item would have been in game for many more months honestly.

They just seemed to never have a solid plan for what community sourcing means, and how to do it.

 

This i can agree with. I have always wanted that magic UO 2!!!

But... i did understand, before pledging, that it was not UO2 i was buying. I guess if you were a really early bird with kickstarting/pledging, you might have thought otherwise? But us people coming in for R12, well... a few lines of reading, and 1 video... and we know that is not the case, so i cannot really see us whine about it, because i seriously doubt that is going to change, i still think it will become magic, but hey i bought the original Final Fantasy XIV, so maybe my judgement aint so good.

 

haha thank you

 

I didn't want UO 2.

But really the overland map has been here from the start crying that it's there now is like saying you didn't read anything before pledging....no ones fault but your own.

 

Problem isn't with stuff being unfinished, problem is with stuff going in a wrong direction.

Honestly? Looking at the quality of work so far - I'm 99% sure that whatever community can contribute won't make game any better than it is now. To begin with - it'd require replacement of a vast majority of models in the game right now to something made by professional graphics under professional art direction. Cause this game right now smells exactly like something "community made" in the worst sense of this phrase - totally amateur-looking, something from an early 3D games or some poorly-made mods from 3 people who just happened to know some 3D software.

It's not a problem with promises. It's a problem with general quality. Even if they wouldn't promise anything at all and this game would come from random strangers - I still would be totally disappointed in what I see. Yes, there are few gems in between - like the fact that you can own cities, and everything in them or dialog system, but vast, vast majority of stuff is just... totally sub-standard comparing to anything else on a market.

Totally.
If it would be up to me - I would scrap whole 3D stuff and re-made entire game back in 2D. Yes, it would waste huge, enormous amount of work, but at least 2D version would have some chances for success. What I see now doesn't. Perhaps a few most passionate people will love, and will play the game for various reasons - be it The Man himself, be it financial investment in the game, be it this one tiny bit of a game that they actually enjoyed, but in the end of a day: I can't see this game sustaining it's infrastructure. Even if they would fix most of the issues people have with the gameplay itself - graphics alone would be such a huge wall preventing an influx of a new players, that it can't be understated.

Overworld map isn't even nearly as much of a problem as lack of an immerse world is. I would actually be delighted with overworld map replacing usual quick travel / teleportation mechanic from most of the RPGs if there would be an underlaying living, breathing universe beneath it. But there is none. It's a dead world made like RPGs back in late '90s / early '00s with stuff breaking any signs of immersion on literally every step. Heck: Actually there are RPGs from that era with by far better worlds. What we have here is general vaguely uninteresting terrain enclosed in walls with some low-res texture on them, and wolves put in totally random spots which trigger when you approach few meters away from them. None of this stuff looks like unfinished for me. It's looks like fundamentally flawed since a very beginning when one of developers came with an idea on how to design the game world.

ps. see: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/dont-know-were-to-begin.17148/#post-270250

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...nd-content-from-the-character-art-devs.16391/

 

the thing is we have 5 million dollars, I am no pro but I feel that if I were to walk up to a dev and say heres 2.5 million dollars design me a 3d video game world that will knock ur socks off, I am pretty darn sure that dev would do it, then I could take my past knowledge of different systems like crafting etc and incorporate them into that world and it would be pretty darn amazing, I just dont have 5 million to do so, this literally feels to me like a browser game, it doesnt feel to me like a 5 million dollar game

 

I really don't think you know that much about game development by reading what you just wrote. How much do you think it honestly think it costs? They have a large staff that all get wages, lot of overhead....this doesn't look anything like a browser game, at least I don't think so.

 

I dont have a lot of knowledge of game development I only have knowledge of what I have experienced in MMO's over the past two decades, and with this knowledge comes a pretty clear picture of what will and wont work for a Hero/Villain type of MMO and what I feel will or wont work. that is what I go on, and based on how irritated and frustrated I got from playing this game for about an hour, I just dont know, I have spent an hour running around valewind trying to find north valewind and unable to find it, this just doesnt make sense to me. I am not trying ot be mean its just how I feel, I have anxiety issues and trying to find North Valewind triggered a panic attack because it wasnt where logically North Valewind should be which is NORTH of Valewind, just an example, again I apologize I can only base it off my own feelings.

 

Unfortunately some things like that will be frustrating in alpha...systems are partly done, not fully explained...map is a work in progress. If you easily get panic attacks alphas may not be for you. Not to dismiss your input, but you will get lots of times where it will be frustrating.

 

I used to use a phase over the many years of beta testing. "Beta is not for everyone."

Learned a long time ago that people expect a final, polished, product. Most people never get to see a true alpha and this is a pre-alpha. Really really shows how many people come in for a sneak peak and not to test or provide feedback.

As for the OP, $600 or $50 it's all the same to anyone here. You are either here or you are not. Pick things apart, make suggestions, defend those suggestions when people question your post. The more things are talked about the more refined to subject will get.

That $600 comes with a perk, a better direct line to the devs with dev+, get some momentum going about your subject of choice in the dev+ and see where it goes.

 

Every game that was ever good took many years to make... Even though this team is made of legends they are making a new game from scratch and that will likely take years until this game gets in really good shape...???