Aren Bennis + SotA Ep.1 Story + Speculation

THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DANGEROUSLY SPOILER PRONE AND NOT TO BE READ BY ANYONE WHO WISHES TO READ BLADE OF THE AVATAR!





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Now my question is this, how long since Aren Bennis found the Avatar blade to the time that our game episode begins? The Novel was very Prometheus like in what I assume to be the Oracles humble origins. Does anyone have any thoughts or viewpoints on the Oracle? Obviously if she is indeed what the Titans were talking about, then I would like to know how much time has passed since her creation and or the fate of Aren Bennis. I'm aware that 2 more novels are to be produced, is there a release schedule for those?

I have a lot more to talk about but Ill keep it short and wait responses!
THANKS!

 

We don't have exact dates, but it's been about 200 years between BotA and the current game time.

I have not heard any schedule for the next two books. Perhaps someone else has heard something.

 

They also wanted the first novel to be longer. So first, Tracy needs to add some chapters to Blade of the Avatar. Then he will begin writing the next two. So it will be a while.

 

Don't know what the Titans were "talking about" The Oracle only got a very brief mention at the very end of the book. She's basically Titan tech.

 

So we seem to be discussing BotA spoilers. The Titans at the end of that book talk about constructing the Oracle, which makes it seem like the Oracle didn't exist before them and may be less than 200 years old.


This is what gets me. Blade of the Avatar describes these ruins:

http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/..._ruins_succubus_picture_image_digital_art.jpg

 

Yeah that's where Bennis was captured if I rememer correctly. I'm not sure why that "gets you" though?

What gets me is.. yeah the Oracle isn't more than 200 years old but artwork implies she's been around for a LOT longer.. what with huge trees growing on giant oracle heads which were presumably part of a much larger statue. There are some obvious lore conflicts going on between actual lore and how some things are represented. I suppose it's bound to happen when both the lore and the art are being developed at the same time by different people.

 

Somehow half my post disappeared.

There are also these ruins which are more clearly the Oracle and ancient. It makes me wonder if the two are related.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Oracle

In BotA, it says the Titans made the Oracle (we presume about two hundred years ago). Yet there are ANCIENT ruins of the Oracle.

What if the Titans made a machine 200 years ago that powers the confirmatory, but it channels something much older?

 

It's an inconsistency I think we just have to accept. I'm sure the two ruins are unrelated.

Here's another consideration though. The Titans are post-Cataclysm avatars. Even if the Oracle is based on something older.. it would still almost certainly be their tech as a foundation. It's only been about 400 years since the end of Cataclysm. So even if the foundations of the Oracle were built back then they still wouldn't be all that old.

 

That's the big contradiction. The Oracle and the tech behind it isn't that old. But ruins of the Oracle are described as ANCIENT.

I think something older was part of the inspiration for, or creation of the Oracle.

 

Actually, they aren't. It specifically calls out that the ruins in that sneak peak aren't of the ancients (pre-cataclysm).

I think the thing that gets me is that with all assumptions in place, the oracle is going to be roughly 150-175 years old. It doesn't jive, somehow, that the oracle, as 'young' as it is, has risen in power and influence quickly enough to have temples across Novia dedicated to it, which have decayed into barely recognizable ruin by the time 'present day' is occurring in the game's history.

 

The spoiler alert should be in the title please! when people reply to the thread it does not show a spoiler alert.

 

There are even bigger contradictions in the timeline. According to the intro movie.. there are "Ancient" texts from New Britannia.. I recall having been found at archeological sites... BUT the time dialation between Earth and New Britannia doesn't add up.

If we compare Lord British's Earth age to how long we can speculate he's been in New Britannia in the first place. From Akalabeth to Ultima IX.. to New Britannia today.. Richard has ages from about 16-18 to early 50s.. about 35 years Earth time.. give or take. I forget the exact time frame (which has been roughly speculated by fans.. there's a timeline at a website I know but I don't have the link handy).. but I'm going to say about 400-600 year time span between Akalabeth and Ultima IX. Plus an unknown time frame until the ShardFall.. plus another 400 years.

Now consider the Oracle was constructed about 200 years ago.. or even 400 years ago. That wouldn't be more than a decade or so in Earth time.. meaning that "ancient" information can't be more than a decade or two old at most from our perspective. The only way that could work is by pulling some time travel schenanigans.

1. It is implied the Oracle is responsible for the arrival of the new Avatars.. meaning also responsible for the 'ancient texts' existing on Earth.
2. The information is post ShardFall.. Even if the Oracle wasn't responsible it still wouldn't be very old in Earth years.

 

Good food for thought, heres some more! If I remember correctly LB had said that he wanted to relate the SotA spiritually, but would be able to tie all the games together. Even UO would be incorporated. So if one considers that, then one must think of the shards of the gem of immortality. Perhaps we are going in to one of the multiverse plots wherein certain things happened and so on and so forth did not happen. I was thinking about how he would fix his own continuity as even though many hated Ultima 8, more so hated 9 (I loved U8 for the idea of the Avatar had to willingly embrace questionable acts for the greater good) for its retcons and lack of general story quality.

Heck if that's the case the Oracle could be Exodus pulled from the same space he was sent in Forge of Virtue by the Titans 0_0 !
Anyway enough of that lol! I am thrilled at every morsel thrown our way.

 

The Titans are trapped on New Brittania, and are using there tech from their world and utilizing tech from this world in an attempt to return home. What if the Oracle is a melding of technologies based on old ancient tech from New Brittania and of course that of the Titans to create a new entity with perhaps an identity problem or inner conflicting purpose which we are not privy to yet.

 

Unfortunately I don't think any of that is viable. UO doesn't even really apply to Ultima continuity. Since all of those worlds are self contained with no evidence of ever connecting outside their own little space. None of the PCs in UO were avatars.. and no one outside the shards ever had the slightest knowledge of the existence of those worlds. At least there has never been any official lore saying such.

So essentially, nothing that occured inside the shards has any relevance to Ultima or SotA lore / history.

The Oracle was created by the Titans using their limited knowledge of tech from their own world. Where as Exodus was created by a joint effort of Mondain and Minax.. though if the psychy (sp) and core ever reunited floating about the void that does open up interesting possibilities. Could we see another incarnation of Exo-DU5 in the future?

 

On that we can only speculate.. but speaking of speculation.. Bowen (in-character) has speculated that the Oracle (as a construct) could be suseptable to outside influences. It is a machine after all.. for all we know.

 

I see where youre coming from so let me elaborate on my UO idea. Seeing how SotA cant be an official sequel I surmised that they would draw upon the breaking of the gem of immortality as a way to loosely connect the world spiritually as they have put it. Considering how the map looks similar to Sosaria in Ultima 3 and the fact that you and I are at least a tiny bit intrigued that Exodus might somehow play a role: I just thought that we could possibly be playing in one of the alternate worlds where not everything came to pass. But yeah its just a theory based on speculation and loose information that I was trying to connect the dots too! Thanks for your input it is as always fun to read!

 

I think the spiritual connection is more in keeping as much as they can of Ultima in general.. as well as the underlying design philosophy that Ultima was made with in the first place.

There are a lot of ties if you think about it.. the Sosaria map is just one of many. We know for example that there were two moons. Lunar rifts is pretty obvious. The three principles of Truth, Love & Courage.. Avatars and Virtues. Just about anything that can be used from Ultima without getting Portalarium in trouble seems to be sneaking its way in. Even character stats.. Str, Dex and Int are the only stats. Classic Ultima formulas at work. Reagents for spells anyone?

In it's own way even the Oracle is an Ultima throwback. Go to the Oracle and see where you stand with the virtues! Right out of Ultima IV! Not to mention the Oracles of Fawn in U3 and SI. Titans? not directly tied but as a loose concept.. from U8.. and there's probably a lot more as well.

 

Roger! I totally got all of those connections but like I've said I thinking i'm reaching more so out of fanboyish wishes than concrete info. I cant wait till we get a huge update on quests and the like!

 

Could the Oracle, perhaps, be tied to the fabric of reality in way that transcends time, regardless of the world one hails from? Thus, while the "ancient texts" that summon us from the depths of the internet may perhaps pre-date the existence of Sosaria, Britannia and Novia (!!!), there is nothing the prevents the Oracle from being able to plant that information in our distant past across the Void...