Advocacy for PVP!

....As you enter this Great Hall, there are PVP flags hung along the back wall, and seats on either side of a single podium in the middle of a stage. The room is crowded with Avatars from all walks of life, from Crafters, Vendors, Lords and Ladies, Warriors, Mages, and common folk of Novia.
The crowd is talking amongst themselves, a low roar resounding 'round the stone walls. Guards stand at the entrance eying all closely in anticipation of an outburst of violence, these Guards are well armoured, and armed, obviously not their first event of this magnitude!
Then slowly Music fades in and the crowd begins to settle.


A hooded figure enters the room lead by the greatest Assassins of Novia, Ariella the "Shadow Dancer" and Kiera Faolain known as " The Little Wolf" , At first you notice the exquisite beauty of the two, just to realize these are the greatest Assassins of Novia, and could end up the last thing you see before all goes black! Following the hooded figure is Heavy Smoker, and Swampthing not an ounce of emotion upon ther faces, some of the most renowned Player Killers in Novia as well! The Lich Lord from the north, Ravicus following them bringing a chill across the crowd! The guards now focused their attention on the entourage, their hands adjust to a firm grip on their weapons! Falling in behind them is Sir Cabrius "Ritter der Tafelrunde"or "Ritter der Rundetische" (depending on whether you are from the East or the West) one of the kindest and humble Knights in the realm, Sciamano Guildmaster of Malus, Duke Violation, Guildmaster of OoV both heavy combatants in the arena or tourneys and Gaelis "The Builder, crafter" . All take a seat upon the stage. The panel was set now people from all walks of life from PVP to Non PVP. The hooded figure steps up to the podium and slowly removes his hood, and looks out upon the gathered crowd all now realize it is blaquerogue AKA Torniquet!

"Hail and well met Citizens of Novia I am here to advocate PVP in its purest form, as we can with what rules are set before us! At this time i would like to invite Chris Spears, and all other Devs to join in this conversation for your most valuable input!"

"First off i would like to point out some facts before we get started!"
#1 There will be no full loot at this time and possibly for eternity in the Realm. This we can all agree upon there is no changing that at this time!
#2 There are some out there, that have no interest whatsoever in PVP at all.
#3 This is the PVP forums, where all have a right to express their opinions whether PVP or not please respect all opinions!
#4 PVP will be optional, which means no one will be forced to PVP if they do not wish! If they do choose PVP then they are solely responsible for whatever happens to them in PVP and its Consensual . Saying no room to complain."

"So without further ado I'd like to start off with some questions.....

-Is one item or two and or ransom, worth it to any PVP to actually go out and fight someone to the death?
-Can the powers that be, let PVE challenge each other to Duels, with no loot, no Virtue loss. but pride?
-Can we not have Arena matches without loss of items or Virtues?
-What are the reasons you personally want to PVP?"

Continuing on...
"PVP and PVE will never see eye to eye based on past experiences of both PVE and PVP! Can we as a whole Coexist? There is no reason why PVE cant duel each other, join guild wars, or complete quests flagged PVP to follow a certain story line, like "Protect the caravan" and in those instances not lose any of their loot or Virtues! In turn PVP cannot lose any virtue or loot for attacking the "Caravan" or protecting it!"

"This way PVE will be interested in some sort of PVP and PVP will be interested in some kind of RP or story following line as PVE.

In turn PVP can have more loot from each other, NOT FULLY, just more when we attack each other. PVP is a costly profession! Our Armor and weapons are damaged more often than not from each other!

Let the Pkrs Pk! We already have guilds that will hunt them down and they have guilds that will hunt us down! We are enjoying our PVP this way! Let us enjoy the game as much as the PVE will!
We have PVP only zones that PVE can go into anytime they want (under PVP rules of play) just like when we decide to just follow story line and unflag we need to follow the PVE rules, no attacking each other except for the Guild War, Duels, and special PVP event with no loss of items or virtue as well!"

"Also devs please make towns designated no PVP so people have a chance to raise skill buy and bank. or sell without risk of Pks ganking you! Also make towns that are Lawless so those Pks can go to those towns, maybe charge higher prices since it will be considered black market with stolen goods!

One more thing Devs....Looking back at the UO days you have 3 or 4 murder counts before you went red, whether you were a good guy or bad guy!

You had to go say a mantra at an Ankh saying "I must consider my sins" to remove the red flag!

You had 3 levels blue(didnt murder anyone), Gray (maybe murdered one or two) Red (murderer) By first look we knew who was good or bad murderer or not!
There were penalties for being a murderer and there were titles to be had as murderers as well ( a goal for them to reach).
There where also titles to be had by people that were not murderers! That swept clean the land of evil!
and my favorite there were bounties! This can easily be tracked by your system on who killed who! , if your a good guy and you kill off 4 reds, guess what? you turned red! and also had to go say a mantra! No one was safe from going red!

Ok ive rambled on enough and have tried to keep it off of attacking anyone! So i open the floor to suggestions.... not fights, only suggestions and please everyone respect others opinions or this bad boy will be shut down!

 

Hi blaquerouge

Your Idea sound good for me....and I like the way you write
Hope we will find a way to enjoy PvP and PvE people as well, I personally don't like it to see this strictly separated because I made friends on both sides

 

Blaquerogue you are a PVP with your whole heart and you are a noble one. You know I'm a PVE but the time will come and I will try Open PVP. Griefing and killing people which are AFK or busy with a trainer will hold people from Open PVP. So I will wait until there are guards in the towns which prevent such behaviour.


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*stands up and wait for her turn to speak, then smiles at torniquet*

Thank you for your Invitation. I am Indeed a crafter and decorator, I don't used my weapons much to fight other people but....
I really enjoy watching good fights and sometimes I like to take part just to help friends or try to get some pracise fighting in tournaments or duells.

My hope is we will find a way for all to enjoy their lifes in New Britannia, knowing "thats what you get for doing so", have rules for those which choose a life in darkness and blood like we have them for the brave knights and citizen, like for crafters and gatherers.

Fighters need beeing rewarded like a crafter needs to be payed for their good work. We will need eachother, make friends on each side.
I hope there will be time to follow own goals like there will be time to fight side by side or sit in a tavern for a good ale.
I hope our new world will not be splitted that much for whats your choise of life is, but give a feeling of save to those which dislike to fight.

And even murderer and thiefs should be rewarded, with rules that markes them as a murderer or thief .
There will be maybe a reason to choose the phad of criminal, gold, maybe just the fun to see people dead but if you do so....take the consequences to be not welcome in towns if known as murderer.
Thiefs should have problems to trade in towns because Merchands take care of their goods and have no reason to trust them.

*nods and take a seat *

 

- Well, I learned that some people will attack even without any reward (even to kill everything that moves or to hunt down PKs). That being said, there is no risk yet. There should be balance between risk and reward. I would like bit different loot system. The general idea is, that the city should be generally safe area. However if you have something really valuable, the reward might attract more than one bad guy.
- I enjoy duels most of PvP, I would hope that we get option to duel without any death penalty
- That would be nice too.
- I really enjoy that I have option to kill all those 'yellow' named people, but I do not have to Though, I also quite enjoy hunting PKs down. And recently I enjoy duels without the need to flag to duel. I hope we can avoid Virtue loss penalty if the person we fight is ok with it.

I think that some kind of 'soft PvP' without item loss for temporary PvP would be great. I think this should work if PvP friend of PvE person is attacked. They should be able to heal him (and flag themselves for PvP by doing so), but if they are not doing anything bad, they should not face too much consequences for joining PvP themselves.

I think that we need to be able to loot at least consumables and crafting resources should be lootable as well. Otherwise, what will be the reason to play bandit in PvP area where all the miners are getting gold no matter whether you kil lthem or not and only thing you can loot is pickaxe...

Other ideas:
Loot:
- Pledge rewards are not lootable. Ever.
- All (or 50%?) consumables on person are lootable.
- X% (50%?) of gold on person is lootable (we should be able to store gold in bank or in containers).
- All (or 50%?) resources for crafting are lootable.
- On top of that you can ask ransom for one more item.
- The attacker has 30 seconds to choose their loot and set price on it. They should set price for the whole set of items. If they do not ,the game assigns value of the loot. The victim has 30 seconds to agree to the ransom, if they do not, they lose those items.
- There should exist Artifacts, relics from the past, which are powerful, but also make you go PvP. They should be trackable. And you would have to play in multiplayer at least hour a week or they vanish. Perhaps the more powerful artifact, the more online it has be and some could be persistent and would serve for (hopefully meaningful) guild wars.

Reputation:
I would like to see quite complex system for criminals
- People you killed need to seek out guards and tell them you killed them. Though if guards will see you attack someone, there is no need for that.
- If you kill someone innocent in the city, you are flagged as criminal immediately.
- If you kill someone outside of the city (but still close to it), you are marked as suspect. Guards will follow you in the city, ask you questions, most merchants will be unwilling to trade and the rest will give you way wors prices than to others. People can now attack you outside of the city, but not in the city.
- If you kill 5 people outside the city, you are marked as criminal in the city as well. People can attack you in the city as well. And guards will do the same. Merchants will not trade you and call guards.
- If you kill 50+ people outside of the city, guards will explore surrounding areas of the city and hunt you. Your known location will be forwarded to players to join the hunt.
And the more people you kill, the wider the area where you are hunted and the longer cooldown before people forget... I would say that usually murder will be forgotten in a week. So if you kill 50 people, oyu have to wait a year, before you can safely return to that area.

Oh, and criminals would have to stay with their PvP flag on.

Bounty Hunters are allowed to hunt PKs even in areas where they are unknow for their crimes. Though perhaps they should be encouraged to do so outside of the cities, or they will became criminals there themselves.

 

I like it but i dont think you should be flagged for a year! That would really suck! other than that i love the ideas!

 

If ye don the the banner of war, you must march to its beat! Be a fool and be fodder! I will not judge you by your actions, but by your taste.......Muhahahahah! *Collects some random body parts for his stew....* The more virtue you have, the sweeter the taste, And a paladin, a paladin is the food of gods! Tis my holy grail, for its *ahem* *cough* "goodness" will be like sweet nectar off of a ripened peach........... *fades into darkness......*

 

Hah awesome

 

Two words: Permadeath.

If you flag for PVP, you forgo or attenuate your ability to resurrect on death. What's reward without risk? Maybe you don't lose your ability to resurrect all at once; tie it to your overall virtue, the number of murders on your conscience, or something. But at some point you've crossed a line, overextended, made a calculated error, and *poof* it is oblivion, another avatar for the dark maw of eternity.

 

There has been some really interesting discussions on perma-death in the past hehe. It would be somewhat more realistic in a non consensual pvp world though. Sota is pvp by consent only so there really is no killing of innocents in this game. If you flag, its up to you to be able to fight, or to die. Some will have kind hearts, and let you be, some will not, tis the nature of the beast.

 

Thanks for posting I dont agree here! i dont wish to be punished for playing something i chose PVP.

 

Maybe some threshold of guard-deaths results in permadeath. If the guards are after you, you'd better make sure they don't get you. Put some teeth in "wanted levels" -- otherwise what's the point?

 

Do you PVP? If so Why do you chose to do it?

 

Well like I said before, in a non consensual world, and attacking innocent players, I would go for this, but in Sota, there is no attacking non consenting players. So why would you want to permadeath some one. I can see the guards getting mad at some people fighting in towns. But that should not be permadeath, that should maybe make some one flee and maybe make the npc's in that town charge them more for items or repairs or something. Remember the oracle is watching so the virtues are in place.

 

Permadeath is already possible. Little bit of an honor system but you can hit that delete character button any time you die.

 

I agree that with flagging for PvP you take the risk getting killed everywhere, but for now all that PKing reduces the PvP community more than let it grow.
( in finished games too but even more in an combat unbalanced pre alpha game with new players testing if they like to play PvP )
There are guilds like OoV or BEAR doing great to show players how much fun PvP can be and at the other hand those players get scared away by zoning on them to kill and other things like that.
You may say those people should better not play PvP but maybe they would lern and grow to good PvPers.
For sure they took the risk getting killed... but with such behavior right now,in my opinion, you all take the risk never get more rewards for PvP like you are promised right now.
So make sure to show people its worth to take more risk vs rewards.

 

I totally understand your statement, and in a perfect world where everyone thought the exact same way it would work. You have to understand that for most of the hardcore pvp players here, consensual pvp is a compromise. We are lucky that we have the few that have stuck it through. I understand that right now people might be put off from pvp by harassment. For those people there are also duels, tournaments, pvp arenas, and the brave coast that they can go to and fight without having to flag themselves. They can experience the pvp battles and then leave when ever they want. You mentioned OoV, they would have not much to do as an Anti PK guild if there where no PK's to hunt down. There must be balance. Good vs Evil, virtue vs anti virtue, and so on. It is not an easy world in flagged open pvp, nor should it be.

 

Don't get me wrong ( maybe I could explain it better in german ) I understand that even PKing is a playstyle and I don't say not to do so, and yes, good vs evil is needed and should be.
For now I say the ( hardcore) PvP community should involve new ( PvP) players more than scare them away..... and I would like to see that.
A big PvP fan base in SotA is better to ask for more rewards.

 

I totally agree. You've taken the words out of my mouth



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I like this idea with some modification, I would rather see 10-15% consumables and 20% gold lootable as well as the additional item. The looter should NOT set the price for the "ransom" item. The reason I see these values is because if you can loot someone twice and take all of their gold and consumables then you wont have any lasting fights you will have to CONSTANTLY go back into town for more stuff, I like penalty but in reality as a PvPer even just getting a piece of equipment each time is something I will enjoy, the bonus gold/consumables is just a bonus.

Why I don't think the looter should be able to set the price is they will always set it to some outrageous number. Port already has plans for an intense system being able to track value and such of an item so I would assume it wouldn't be "too difficult" (DLMB because issues always arise).

I don't mind resource's being more lootable because it is a penalty/reward that doesn't stop combat unlike consumables.