Attack of the Clones (Vendors)

There is all this effort in SotA to create immersion. We're starting to see the genesis of NPC schedules. And then that is brought to a crashing halt by clones of NPC vendors sitting frozen and stagnant in front of all these properties.

I propose the best solution is to not have vendors that look human. Either make them an automaton so it is natural for them to stay in place 24/7, or replace them with a static object like a sales ledger or a steampunkish-cash register.

 

Sales Unit 32X5

Well if you did that, then when it had inventory and had a mechanical flag up, it would make sense too.

 

Ooh, I like that idea!

 

What about having them dress-uppable (like, you throw your gear on them to change their appearance), and they could sell different faces in the store? Hmm, maybe that would introduce performance problems, though.

But regarding the fact that they never move... hmm, maybe they would take lunch breaks, and sleep breaks, and dinner breaks, and go grab a beer breaks, find them at the tavern at night, etc. And every once in a while, you'd be running by and you'd overhear one talking about how they are ridden like a foaming horse by their landlord!

Or maybe they could even be like those people (in real life) hired by local stores to stand out on the sidewalk near roads spinning signs in the air to attract attention from passing traffic - but only when the vendor has inventory and you pay them 1 gold or something to go advertise, hehehe.

 

i'd like them to have some indicator of whether they actually have goods to sell. too many of these clones have empty shops.

i do like a ledger. it could be open or closed to indicate whether it has goods. ...though i'm not sure how to indicate that you're buying something when that function is added

 

Adding NPC schedules can hurt performance. There is a PoT that is apparently 500 row lots. Imagine 500 of these NPCs trying to operate on schedules, all going down to the tavern, etc. Scheduling, pathfinding, casting shadows, interacting with all the dynamic lights, etc. It would kill performance in a town. Where would they all go?

And if it is your vendor, you want them selling your items, not disappearing. That is why I think an automaton or static item makes more sense.

As far as changing your appearance, I think changing the color of the automaton to represent the type of goods you primarily sell (reagents, blacksmithing, carpentry, etc) might be nice. People at a glance can figure out which automaton to visit.

 

Good points!

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ste...X&ved=0CCAQsARqFQoTCMavr5vlmMcCFYsakgodJzMLHg

Take your pick, design one to make it ours
Red light, empty,
Green Light, Full
Blue light, buying

Etc etc
Designers open paradise

The question is what do the devs see for the future of vendors, they may already have something in mind that solves this anyway

 

My initial thoughts for vendors and/or house servants, was that they should require a place to sleep at night. (or during the day - you should be able to tell them which shift to work). So you have to make or buy a bed, and place it somewhere on you property, one for each NPC you have active..
Maybe every NPC comes with two things, a stool/table that represents where they work, and a bed that represents where they sleep, and each must be placed in the same zone (but not necessarily on the same property. It would be cool if all NPCs could walk randomly within a 20-foot radius from their designated work-spot, and that they would automatically engage in conversation with any other NPC's within 20 feet if there are no players nearby.
Perhaps we could add a third item, a chair that they sit in for their designated lunch break. The lunch hour should be set by their master, and competing players can work to have their vendors available while the others are at lunch, much like they can adjust the shift their vendors work to catch more customers when the other vendors are sleeping..

 

See my above comments about performance, and players wanting their vendors to sell 24/7.

 

I agree, you should be able to dress them in craftable items. Make them distinct and stand out. I am sure some will make them naked but hey, it goes with the territory hehe.

 

I hope later we can make them male or female and dress them how we like, much like we did in UO.

 

'Vendors Are People Too!' No more long hours! If people want 24-hour shops, they may need two vendors to work shifts. I'd rather all NPCs remain realistic. I think having automatons or clockpunk vending machines could be a nice option, but I don't think they need to replace the NPCs entirely. Also, if non-humans provide the benefit of 24-hour service, what would the benefit of using humans be? Perhaps the machines take a higher percentage of the profit, and breakdown occasionally requiring a repair cost?

 

Right now the vendors are human, and they should need rest! and different clothes!

 

That's why I think the vendors shouldn't be people anymore. Have the merchants go to sleep in their beds, and replace the player vendors with automatons or static objects like ledgers or registers.

 

I will never buy from an Automaton! I want the ability to haggle prices too! Can a robot haggle?

 

At least as far as AI / NPC schedules go, it depends if the devs make these server-side calculations vs. client-side master (which then sends back to server that then relays to all others in the scene). Typically, these would all be done server-side in an MMORPG as NPCs persist across all clients (i.e. they exist in the same xyz space and thus must not have different AI pathing behavior between clients).

Haven't you seen janky NPCs walk around town? That's because some low-performing machine (either in CPU or network) became the master and was not able to do it fast enough or stream it fast enough to all other players in the scene. I think eventually they will have to move AI calculations like this to the server, as they can scale up on-demand depending on scene. I don't think they can leave these critical calculations to remain on the client master, but we'll see.

The older bug forums are archived and no longer viewable, but here's the bug in google's cache, along with Starr's response.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:X7kicBLwX1gJ:https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/npcs-and-animals-are-moving-in-stop-motion.18715/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

As far as rendering calcs go, yes, those are all client side and is a separate performance issue mainly delegated to the GPU (with some CPU) and only affects that one client. At least the client can turn off visual quality settings to maintain an acceptable frame rate.

 

It's still going to look like Night of The Living Dead if you replaced them with automatons. The problem is having anything humanoid just standing there, staring blankly into nothingness. They look like pod people waiting for the mother-ship to give them the attack order.

Would it be too much on performance to have them on a schedule just walking around a little bit? Stopping over here...then wandering over there. Something basic to add some variety. Also, being able to choose from a small selection of different NPC models, including gender, would help too.