When its time to pick lots based on pledge level...

This is how rumors get started.

 

Please note that there are two types of game controller towns, just like Blake Blackstone detailed upthread.
NPC Towns are complemented by Lot Towns (like Valemark & Holtrot in the Hidden Vale) which has been given the misnomer Player Run Town but they have no player owner just lots of lots. These were refered to as "suburbs" in some of the kickstarter info.
So while you are guaranteed to have lot placement outside of POTs as per DarkStarr's statement above, so you are safe to place in a game controlled town, you are not necessarily guaranteed lot placement in the popular NPC Towns.
Similar scenario with the not as popular NPC Towns like Solania.

What Blake Blackstone was refering to above, which you seem to mistakenly interpret in a different way, was how fast lots in the popular NPC Towns, like Brittany, Ardoris, Aerie, Owl's Head etc will be occupied.
If some towns like the PRTs (lot towns - no owner) are as unpopular at launch compared to the major NPC Towns, as they are now. Then for some there will definately be some incentive to claim something smaller but in a popular spot in a popular town.
For instance someone with a Town Deed arriving in the town of their choice, like Owl's Head, finding that all Town Lots are claimed already, might consider claiming a great/good Village Lot spot instead just to get to live in that particular town.

I am hopeful though that Portalarium puts in some checks and balances to prevent such things.

First and foremost would be to add things to the PRTs (lot towns - no owner) or smaller NPC Towns to make them more attractive to live in. (There has been several mentions of this but so far no real implementations). This since as is right now the gap between popular and unpopular is wide enough to encourage behavior deviant from the planned scenario.

Then to have some regulation of when lots of different sizes are made claimable (works best with the web solution, less so with the lot rush concept), or some other limit on claiming a lot not intended for the currently active tier.

If you wonder how some rumors start you need not look further than your own statement here.

Kinda ironic don't you think?
EDIT - beaten to that point by Brae...

 

I understand the concepts of PRT's, POT's and major NPC towns thanks and I am perfectly fine being in a PRT or an NPC town. I don't make a distinction between the two, because for me they act the same way, in that you have no chance of being booted from an NPC town or PRT, whereas you do in a POT.

If the land rush only happens once ever, I would never take the chance of missing out on a PRT or NPC town plot, and I have reason to suspect most people wont as well, but we will see. The reality is that the consequences of making a poor decision here are just too great : the real estate market could be worth a fortune for a plot in a PRT or NPC town down the line, and you will likely have additional visitors and foot traffic for your goods as well. These will be EXTREMELY desired spots is my guess.

What I am NOT fine with during Land Rush, is being unable to find a plot OF THE SIZE GUARANTEED IN MY PLEDGE in either a PRT or NPC town. I dont expect to get a guaranteed spot in a specific PRT or NPC town, but I do expect to get a spot of the size I was guaranteed in ONE of them. Darkstarr has confirmed this would not happen so we can finally bury that one and stop people spreading FUD, including within this thread.

 

In a way there is already a check and balance in place.

If you look at the pledge descriptions of the pledges that come with two lots, the smaller lot has fine print saying that they are placed later in the lot claim process (probably with/just before the Add-on store lot deeds can be claimed). So in order to claim a smaller lot at an earlier time you have to use your larger deed on that smaller lot. Thus, in my opinion, self-devaluing your pledge reward. Would I like to be in a popular NPC town with great foot traffic? Yes. Would I want to lose the land space and ability to place a larger home by claiming a smaller lot? No Others may be willing to do just that.

Are there ways around this? Yes. Having a second Rf/f high tier pledge and using that deed to claim a smaller lot.

 

Completely agreed on this one. I think that the current population in the forums and the game are not representative of the majority of pledgers at launch and that that majority will want to live in game controlled towns.

If they make no changes to PRTs I have great difficulties in seeing any markup for any but the lots closest to the entrance.
They have almost nil attraction on visitors unless that which is created by those living there.

However for NPC Towns I think you are very much correct about a real estate value there, although the outskirts of any community away from POIs will attract almost no foot traffic.

 

There is one caveat to this : If the user has a guarantee that they can place their larger lot at any time in the future after the land rush.

In that case, one can use the larger deed (say a Keep deed in my case) to claim a Row lot in a well-walked Story Town, and then later after the rush is complete, reclaim the lot using the smaller Row Deed, in order to free up the larger deed for another use.

Since there *will* be sufficient Keep lots in-game to satisfy pledge rewards, and very few users are capable of claiming them, that becomes a possibility.

 

Yes but that isn't even close to being enough of a check nor balance in my humble opinion.
The gap between popular towns and unpopular towns are too great for people not to speculate on this if the devs let them.

 

I did say in a way.

In my mind the easiest way to control this is to turn-off the ability of placing larger deeds to claim smaller lots during the Pledge Reward land rush. This can then be turned back on for secondary lots and add-on lots.

 

The problem with this IDEA of yours is that some people upgraded their pledges based on the current system. The current system allows Town deeds on village plots, and not one admin/dev has ever corrected anyone when the statement was made that this would be allowed on release. Just look for yourself at the lot selection sequence thread:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lot-selection-sequence-process.11466/

You can clearly see multiple people stating that you can put a town deed on a village plot in this sequence system, as long as that town plot is your MAIN deed and not a secondary deed. There are also people who question the fairness of that system and IMO some of those opinions have valid concerns.

The problem is a Knight that upgraded to Knight Marshall to ensure themselves better selection of the village plots shouldn't be told after the fact that the rules are have been changed forcing those Knight Marshalls into town plots when their goal was a prime village plot location. If they want to change the system they better let those who choose to downgrade their pledges (and I mean cash refunds) so they can be at the desired level to have the best chance at getting the location they desire. After all that is what pledging is all about, giving yourself a better chance at a better start in New Britannia.

I will give you this: They NEVER should have allowed deeds to be place on lots that are lower the the current deed name (ex: city plot on village lot), but they did and always have. So I'm afraid the cat has been let out of the bag and is never to be caught and returned. To change it now would be only unfair for those of us that put the most money into the development of this game. Don't get me wrong I know the argument, I was once a low level donor too. The argument is simple, what's going to be left for the lowest level pledgers. I think the biggest mistake here to begin with is the assumption that everyone should have a plot. In my opinion, it's an invalid position as some people, in ANY fair system, have to be renters, or guest of another land owners. You can't expect to have a land of Oprah where everyone gets a car in the audience. I realize that this position is not popular as there is more low level donors then anything else, but to anyone reading this, I'm sure they have enough plots for everyone above a certain level so most won't be left out in the cold. The problem now seems to be, that those at the middle and bottom levels want the system to be changed to give them a better shot at high end plot locations and there simply is a very limited amount of those. The only way I see someone achieving the goal of a high end plot location is if they donate to higher and higher levels all the while ensuring themselves a better shot at their desired location.

If I've misstated any of the facts of the selection process system, someone please correct me.

 

I think that your basic premise is correct in that there would be some upset people if they changed the rules... However where they and you would be not 100% correct would be in assuming that this is indeed the final set of rules set in stone. While I don't see any reason for it right now there could be some changes coming in later on when they start to plan this for real and try to make it fit into the schedule and tech available then.
Check out the statements that DarkStarr makes there.

They have not yet issued any statement saying that this is finalized that I have seen.

 

Spoon,

Of course I recognize that the rules are not set in stone. But in all fairness, I highly doubt that they would make such a fundamental change such as changing the essential way the deeds worked that would so greatly effect ONLY their top end donors. After all, donations have been pledged based on a certain rule set that has been stated over and over again by the creators. Currently, it is FACT that city & town deeds can be used on village lots, to change this, even if it's ONLY for launch would, in my humble opinion, be a deal breaker for some. In the end, it's simply the system we were presented with and we used that system to determine which level we were willing to donate to. I would have NEVER considered donating to the level I have if a rule about being force into a town lot with a town deed or city lot with a city deed was enacted. I believe many others, even people not directly effected, would back me up in stating the same.

In the end, I think my bigger point I was trying to make was if they DID change this rule to accommodate lower end donors, they then at very least, I would argue, would have an obligation to reinstate account splits for those higher end donors who have been grossly effected by those changes. I don't expect all decisions to go my way, but I do expect a fair chance to right a wrong that was due to a rule change that wasn't stating until the last minute.

In the end, it's all speculation so I guess none of this matters.

 

im not sure where i read or saw or on what interview but it was stated with unequivocal guarantee that every one that is in the pledge reward system will be able to get a lot of their pledge lvl in a npc town. every pledge in the game will have an associated npc town lot location. i know more people that will use their houses in non npc towns that will use in npc towns. the cold hard fact is they get to place 1 property down first then everyone gets a shot at it before you get to place a second one. not counting if they let the open noob's from that just bought the game go next and give them a shot to buy a house but i think they are several weeks out just earning the gold for it under the current standards.

 

Roper Docholiday,

After reading my OP, perhaps I didn't make myself perfectly clear. I'm not saying lots were not promised to all. I'm simply stating it shouldn't have been promised to all because it leaves everyone believing that everyone should have a chance to access the BEST lots (realizing "THE BEST" is relative). I believe the best should be reserved for the higher end donors. The bottom line of my post is if you give people an inch they will take a mile. Heck I've seen post making the suggestion that the lot selection order should go from highest to lowest to second highest to second lowest and so fourth leaving the last to place plots somewhere in the Developer Pledge level. I've seen another suggest that all royal founder's should go first meaning a person at the lowest level of donation (first responder) would be higher in lot selection before someone at the second highest level (Duke) all because he/she donated sooner (i.e. Royal Founder). Of course, all of these suggestions have fallen so far on deaf ears but I just feel many people are trying to change the basic fundamentals of the system in the middle of the game to suit them and their donation level rather then just donating more to the cause to better their position in the lot selection. Once I saw the basic system spelled out (set in stone or not) I upgraded to give myself the best chance under that basic system, others have chosen not to upgrade, but try to get rules change so they don't have to upgrade yet still have the best chance at a good position. ((i.e. My belief is that anyone with a City or Town plot should be able to use their plot on a village lot as it's ALWAYS BEEN previously. Changing this BASIC fundamental thing now would cause even more complexity into a system that is (IMO) already to complex.))

I hope everyone is satisfied with whatever the system is in the end. I guess what I KNOW is that.... no matter what the end plot selection system is, some will be dissatisfied. Regardless, I wish everyone the best of luck.

 

A tips is if you add an @ before someone's name they get a notification that you have tagged them, like so
@Spoon

Now to your statement, lets go back to Innessa's point earlier:

Now compare this to yours:

Those two are mutually exclusive. So the devs can't cater to both.


So which one do you think would be most disruptive to the community?

That when people arrive during their window there are no longer any lots of 'their' size to claim? Forcing them to claim something smaller than what they have pledged for.
/or/
Temporarily during the high tier lot-rush one can't claim below one's size?

 

@Spoon

What I think you are forgetting, whether consciously or not, is two things:

#1 No one at lower tier pledges are being PREVENTED from upgrading:

If no lower level tiered person is being prevented from pledging more (giving themselves a chance at a better village plot placement) and if you read reason #2 which 100% FACTUALLY DISCOUNTS the claim of "WHAT IF THERE ARE NO MORE VILLAGE LOTS AVAILABLE WHEN WE ENTER", then I can't find any other motivation to argue this point any further.

#2 Due to the below 2 quotes from authoritative sources your claim that they will not have enough PROMISED village plots for everyone is invalid. I believe their claims will be accurate no matter how many high end donors op to select a lower level plots. I've quoted both DarkStarr & Envy's post in this very thread:

So there it is and not that I don't find you trust worthy Spoon, but I'm gonna take those two guys word for it as they have never steered me wrong. I'm gonna believe that they have 30% over and beyond what is needed in NPC & PRT towns and they believe that 30% OVER will cover even the higher end guys that go to lower end plots. So I think this is much to do about nothing, as in the end I think even if they calculated wrong they will create another town in a day or two during the lot selection process to compensate and no one will ever noticed the difference.

I don't want to sound like I'm not understanding the complaint, I do 100% understand these individuals concerns. However, these individuals concerns are invalid by proof of the FACTS/THINGS that have been promised over and over again. Regardless of these facts that the DEVS have tirelessly time and time again stated, I believe there will always be some that will continue to be skeptical. However, the fact is, if you cut out the highest tiers, Knight Marshal and above from placing village plots you ensure people at the Knight and below level get first go at village placement. Because of this, I believe that this won't be the last post (as it's certainly not the first post) trying to push for this. However, I do believe their motivation is plot placement and has nothing to do with a concern of running out of village plots.

I personally at this very moment am holding out from upgrading my pledge due to the lack of information about Lot Selection. After all I don't see a DEV making effort to put this discussion to rest about disallowing town/city deed placement on a village plot on release and this discussion has been in MULTIPLE threads without a single clarification from a DEV/ADMIN. This gives me good reason to hesitate as changing that rule in the 11 hour would totally screw me and my plans I have in Shroud. Shouldn't I know the rules BEFORE I donate so I can approach the pledge level I intended that best accomplish my goals I have? I just hope in the very near future they just get it over with and release the SET IN STONE Lot Selection Sequence and the specific rules that go with it and put everyone out of their misery. HINT HINT HINT!

 

@PhaRxMer

I think it's time to take a deep breath and calm down a bit. You are starting to write in all caps and include non-rational arguments.

Please note that you are arguing with me as if I have anything to say in this matter, which I don't. So far I've only responded to your inquiry if you were correct and then to add a different PoV from a different poster.

That is a very subjective view point. While not prevented by the system or by the business model a lot of players are prevented by their budget.

Why are you suddenly talking about Village lots exclusively? It's in the higher tiers that the risk in this scenario is the largest, and I'd say the risk is the least for Village lots due to them being most populous and thus have the greatest buffer.
The DarkStarr quote has little to nothing to do with this line of reasoning. You should have searched and used the +30% statement instead, although that one was in a DLMB bracket.
ENVY just like me or you isn't an authority so while I agree with his statement there it gives very little umph to your argument.

Only if they re-designed some of the PRTs after launch, or if they added some new ones after launch.

A tip is to not make absolute statements like these, they are the easiest to prove false since they only require a single counter example.

Lets take the simplest counter example to show what I mean.
In May there were 107 dukes and 85 barons.
If we add +30% to baron's homes that would be ~110.
So if all dukes would take a baron lot, there would be 3 left for the barons.
Now I don't think that is a realistic scenario, mind you, however it disproves your "no matter how many high end donors..." etc because you stated as an absolute position.

 

@Spoon

Didn't realize I was becoming erratic.

However, I'll close my end of this discussion by stating only around 8 words total are in all caps out of over around 200. That's hardly all caps, so I'm a little confused as why that's even being mentioned. In the end, this whole discussion was about a lower tiered person concerned they wouldn't get a village plot because there would be none left when they entered the game due to the fact that town and city plot owners would use their plot to claim village lots. That is why I focused on village lots only.

In the end, I'm not concerned about it as much as I guess you thought I was. I believe that the Dev Team will deal with these issues in due time and they will make the ethical business decision that starts with fulfilling their promises. One of those promises that has been stated is the fact that they will have plots for every person that pledged and received a deed as such in either a NPC or RPT town.

 

Interesting discussion.

I just want to reiterate here one last time to be excruciatingly clear. There is no grey on this issue, it is entirely black and white for me. I will be selling off my pledge and leaving permanently if I get into the land rush, and do not get a plot of the size promised in my pledge amount in an NPC or PRT town. Period. End of statement. I'm not interested in the talk about devs allowing people with higher level deeds to claim lower level plots and how will they sort all this out. If I don't get my plot that I was promised, in the size I was promised, in the type of town (NPC or PRT) that I was promised, I'm out. It's just that simple.

I suspect theres a VERY large number of pledges that would agree with this statement and would also not be pleased at all.

That's my last statement on this until I see word from the devs on ensuring this doesn't happen. I trust the devs and I don't believe they will allow it.

 

Just for arguments sake here, thought I'd give an example of possible compromise solutions that would satisfy both sides, but would mean a little more math for the server.

If part/whole of the buffer (~30%?) in each size was claimable outside of tier, but not more than that.

Then it is possible to claim below one's tier but not so that it interferes with everyone within each tier being guaranteed a lot of their size.

 

You know, I actually like this "give me a number" idea Combine this with web-based lot choices and everyone could know long before launch where they will be living!

My pledge is only at ancestor level, and my budget is unlikely to let me raise it to...citizen say (larger lot), so I will be way, way down the list with lots of competition. I'm not at all looking forward to a land rush and have been thinking of it as a necessary evil.