Deed taxes, farming, and other speculation.

Price increases are rapidly coming for add-on store prices. Village lots already sold out and City, Town lots are about to double in cost and are also close to selling out.

As everyone knows add on store deeds come with taxes, while pledge deeds are tax free. There is a plan to implement farming very soon. Farming will turn land into more than just storage and a cosmetic asset. Farming will turn land into profit.

For farming to be successful the items farmed will need to be sold for more than they cost to farm. If taxes on add on store deeds are more than the return on investment for what is farmed no one will farm on an add on store deed. Pledge tax free deeds will become exponentially more valuable.

I don't believe this scenario will happen. I believe taxes will need to be substantially less than what can reasonably be earned on a deed turned into farm land. The profit on farming will need to take into account land taxes, the cost of materials, and enough return for time spent doing the task.

Therefore add on store deed taxes will need to be minimal or items produced via farming will need to sell for a large profit. If farmed goods sell for too much than all other crafting involving farming such as cooking will also need to increase.

So while we hear a City deed will be taxed to the extent a single person will likely not be able to afford the taxes and they are for guilds. I fail see from a game perspective how this high tax structure can work when farming is involved.

Looking for thoughts, would be great if the developers would provide a bit more information. Considering we have substantial increases coming shortly and very little information to base decisions upon.

My recommendation, buy those add on store deeds before the price increase and the eventual sell out if you have any intention to farm. If you only want a house. Stick with a Citizen or Ancestor pledge.

 

I think they've said before that lot deed taxes will be minimal. The point is to ensure that you need to remain somewhat active as a player to maintain a lot, and someone who leaves the game for six months isn't tying up a lot that an active player wants. The taxes are not designed to be particularly punitive.

 

When and where?

 

I don't think we can expect most players with a yard to be farmers. Rather the opposite. If we look on the target audience it seems rather that most are interested in adventuring or high end crafting.

So their main income will come from other things than farming.

Which means that we can expect the taxes to be based on this non-farming income.

This is of course a given for all row lots as a base.

So the hypothesis that taxes need to be cheap to accommodate farming does not comply with observation.

Instead we can expect most will keep some garden as a hobby. (Like making beer). While only the enterprising few will grow something to refine into high tier as a business.

 

Absolutely not. Quite the opposit.
The only official thing i have heard about taxes is that it would be " Difficult for a normal player to maintain more than two houses ", or something along those lines. So hardly minimal

 

Has anyone heard how taxes will be handled for Player owned towns?

Will the POT owners get the taxes or will the game get the taxes? Will a player have to pay both the game and the POT owner if the owner is looking to make a profit?

 

If the POT owner requires a tax and your LOT is NOT a tax free lot then yes you have to pay the Game and the POT owner :-(

But I am sorry if you are paying POT rent to the owner you are foolish. There are more than enough places out there that rent to a POT owner is just plain slum lording, and greed driven.

 

I'm fishing for answers actually.

Players have asked the Devs to set up ways for home owners to be able to rent their homes to players. I've even heard talk of renting out rooms in a house and I have not heard the devs say no.

In this case the owner would rent and have to pay the taxes.

Like the rest of you I am trying to get my bearings on how to afford living in Novia. Greyfox has pointed out in some ways it may be expensive.

I am a POT owner and the idea has crossed my mind to place lots, deeds and homes and try to rent them. The tax in this case would be mine alone. I'm trying to figure out the affordability of it all. I may not do it at all if its not affordable. As a Lord Marshall I have a few house deeds at my disposal. So instead of selling them outright I thought maybe I could rent them.

Hopefully I don't become a greasy slum lord. LOL

I will try to have enough virtue to keep from being that.

In the beginning of a players life I hope to have a house they can rent at level one and have a good time in the game. Is this affordable? That's the big question.

 

The answer is Yes if you have a lot that requires rent to the game you have to pay it and any other rent imposed by players.

Now if you as the LOT and the POT owner place them and they are rent free, then sure you could rent out a "room" if you want and it would all go to you. But this I fell is a little different than renting out Lots. You have done all the work to have the house and lot there

 

Have the Devs come out with any ideas about how rental will work?

 

Both. The game gets its rent regardless where you live.
So places that charge is extra on top of that.

Not really. There has been lots of generic talk but some is contradictory and some seem to be for long after release.
I think it's one of those things where they need to think unilaterally since the tech must support it. Hence why it has been post poned three times.

 

Nothing stops the devs from ranking up the prices PER lot owned.

made up math:
taxes = 10 x (numOfLots^3)

10g
80g
270g
640g
etc...

or (for the hell of it):
taxes = 10 x (numOfLots^(numOfLots+1))

10g
80g
810g
10240g
etc...

 

Anyone who can afford a deed can afford $25* for an extra account to offset any such thing. Thus min/maxers will get the benefits, but the casuals will be the only to get hit by the taxes.

The only way for that to work is if you tie it to a fee which provides functionality where you want multiple lots and thus gladly pay extra fees. But since we have permissions like Kindred and Trustee such things seem very unlikely.

(*=Recurring STEAM sales).

 

Casuals don't care... that's what makes them casuals.

 

I could make a huge list why that statement is wrong. Of course casuals care if there is a game mechanism that hits them hard but that any min maxer avoids easily. There are thousands of reviews, blogs and forum posts about exactly such things ruining the game play in this or that game.

 

In trying to back to one of the main reasons this thread was started, there is a simple fix to how this can be addressed, to allow farms to be profitable (while the goods they make don't actually bring in a lot & still taking houses on lots) Simply do it as they do in rl.. Farmland or other "natural settings" are often times taxed much less then land that has a house built on it. In fact instead of just taxing the lot, but taxing the lot & they type of structure that's on it would be more realistic.. A citizen house vs. a knight's marshal tower currently from my understanding would be taxed the same simply due to plot size.. IMO they are completely different and hence should be taxed more about the house (or lack there of) then the lot size itself. If someone has farm land, lower the tax rate to next to nothing, but make it a requirement that the land is still used regularly (to avoid players turning their lots into farm land when they don't want to be taxed) & make it so you can only change the type of land you have once per tax cycle to avoid people trying to cheat the system as well.. This can be expanded upon greatly, but just a rough idea on how to improve/manage the tax structure to not screw anyone horribly!

 

And all I need to say is: If they cared, they wouldn't be casuals in the first place.

Casuals play at their own pace. If they start comparing their game with someone else's game and then start feeling something's not fair for whatever reason, they're no longer casuals. They're dedicated ("subconsciously hardcore" as I like to call them) players that feel that they should have equal chances to everyone else... which, honestly, they already do... they just don't want to do the legwork.

Ever heard of the (silly) argument that "I have a life, I don't have time to compete!" ? Never was it ever said by an actual casual. Casual players have all the time in the world, because they don't have that feeling like they should rush to achieve any goal.

Casual players don't complain, they just outright leave.

 

Eventually the plan, according to the Developers, is to have nearly everything player crafted. How can you have player crafting without first obtaining the initial crafting resources? Resource gathering is the foundation of crafting and farming is one of the foundations of resource gathering. Therefore farming will be needed to supply the higher end crafting. Think trees (wood), reagents (perhaps), foodstuffs, animal husbandry (leather), cotton (cloths) the list is nearly endless.

How can you have crafting without farming? How can you have farmers without farming being cost effective and profitable when considering taxation, material costs, and labor?

One thought is land with a house is taxed at a "normal" rate. Land used for resource creation is not taxed or taxed at a much lower rate. Property taxes in the real world are frequently adjusted in a similar manner.

Taxation based upon the number of properties owned, will have people buying multiple accounts. This method will not work.

 

I love the idea Beachin as it addresses one way to resolve the issue that Greyfox points out with multiple lot exploitation.

 

Not only that, but it has the potential to solve the issue of seeing castles where one would expect to see houses.