Auto Attack . . . Again this is a option that needs to be delt with . . . .

I went out and did some work and created some graphics that showed how effective Auto Attack is compared to Skilled Attacks, but was told that I was poorly trained.

So I went out and trained my Skills in Bludgeons to a min of 40. The char I used did not have 4x exp so I had to train very focused. I could not just turn up all my skills and go at it willy nilly since I ate up skill points VERY fast. I also worked very hrd to NOT use Auto Attack as I was told, that if I used skilled attacks they would eventually outpace the gains Auto Attack would get. So I use Auto attack only about 10% of the time when I was overwhelmed.



I then went out and killed some Timber Wolves in the North Celestial Wetlands. I know they are not the same as the Skeletons I fought when unskilled but they would give me a good set of numbers to work with.

Here are the number I got off the Skeletons.


Ok now the Average damage is about = all across the board. Yes Skilled attacks did get to the point where they are a little better than Auto Attack. But only marginally.

Now my whole issue with this is there is NO reason why Auto attack should stay as effective as it does.

Players shold not have ANY reason to WANT to use auto attack it is there and I agree needed for time when OUT of focus or in a bind BUT sadly it is the chosen method of fighting because ti trains so pathetically easy, and stays equivalent to skilled attacks.

Sadly I could have just saved ALL my time and just used Auto Attack and have been just as efficient as a fighter.

I know there are players out there in the 80s / 90s saying that their Skilled fighting is Much more effective than just using Auto Attack.

They are using the full gammit of skills to fight, Offensive Spells, Healing, Death Touch, Defensive stances . . . ETC

My whole issue is plainly that the Fighitng skills are worthless compared to a simple Auto Attack.

I could have saved ALL my time and trained all the support skills and just have Auto Attacked my Bludgeons and I would be just as powerful.



Here are the numbers I got off the Timber Wolves;


Here is link to a Google Doc - Easier to read
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwvjT6d9onAFdk5SM0d5bXFidXc/view?usp=sharing

 

here are some of the fighting videos

Here is the first Skilled Only Fight


Here is an Auto Attack Fight It is the 4th and 5th in one video


And here is a Fight where I Used Auto and Skilled, again I avoid other skill just Bludgeon Attacks

 

Looks fine to me!

 

Ok So what I have shown is simply that Using Auto Attack is as efficient as using Skilled Attacks.

The fact that it take a HUGE amount of exp and time to train the skills, I could have just used Auto attack and save all the points and be just as an effective fighter (with Warrior skills).

So again I am suggesting that Auto Attack plateau at say level 20 ish in the Innate trees, from which Auto Attack gets its power.

I am not saying it needs to go away just needs to stop gaining, so it stops being the Go To Play Style.

Also it would mean that all the time spent training actually has a much more effective result.

I was told that skilled attack would outpace and become much more effective than auto attack - they did not. Auto Attack stayed just as powerful, even when I worked hard NOT to use it.

 

To those that use it, I know it will be something they do not want to change.

But honestly I see no point in playing a game where a method of playing that just lets the computer fight for you and be as effective as 6 well skilled skills in a skill tree.

 

A lot of good data here, Weins. Nice work.

I thought Chris said in his combat video, or I read somewhere else, that the skilled attacks would do notably more damage than a base attack.

So do you feel this is a balance issue or are you saying that auto-attack should go away?

 

I know that it is their intent that auto-attack will not be as effective as people using glyphs as intended.
I don't know when they'll get the numbers they're looking for, but Chris told me that that he's going to try hard to make sure I won't be able to just punch auto-attack and let the game fight for me.

 

Not go away, I see a need for it I use it when I run out of focus but they shoyld not be neck in neck with the skilled attacks I have I would say at my level 1/2 dmg it does now perhaps.

So Balance, Big balance.

And yeah he did say they should not be as equal that was why I did what I did.

 

I like it how it is, once you get your skills up to the same level they beat auto attack hands down. Not to mention, it's pretty boring to just sit back and watch it do it's own thing. I think the real issue is how slow raising skills is currently.

On a side note to your comment:

It's important to remember that there are people playing this game who are less fortunate than you or I, who have all our fingers and can easily get around a keyboard and mouse. I play with a friend who relies on the Auto attack feature simply because of physical handicap so please don't assume that it's something people don't need.

 

II can address both these issues - first off I have just shown you that they DONT beat auto attack , go look at the numbers the average damage for Auto Attack was 17 and the skilled attacks were 20? Sorry but that is almost NO difference.

As for the handicapped, I am not saying it needs to go away, just toned down. It should NOT be as powerful as it is now

 

Auto attack exists largely so that people can't make dead end builds that can't finish a fight at all. The second you hold a weapon in your hand you can perform the most basic attack with it.

Overall, not the most inspired system, but somewhat necessary, since the deck building doesn't let you attach abilities directly to a weapon, like for example how Guild Wars 2 does, where the first 5 buttons on your hotbar are automatically filled with weapon specific abilities depending on what you're holding in your hands.

 

I see a different view on this subject. I'm not very good with timed type of attacks or remembering a lot of different keystrokes for different actions. For me auto-attacks gives me a chance in the game. For someone else, especially someone who wants a more immersive role-play type of attacking, manual attacks would be the way to go. A way to show off their skill at the keyboard or just enjoy the immersion of doing everything manually. But I don't think that turning auto-attacks into a lame system would be a "good thing (tm)" for me or for a lot of players like me who either can't do manual attacks or want to enjoy other parts of the game more than fighting.

If you like manual attacks, go for it and enjoy it. But asking for better results just because that's your preferred play style isn't right in my book. Use it because you enjoy it.

I'll try to put another point across as diplomatically as I can, this isn't an attempt to insult ... maybe someone else could've achieved higher numbers with manual attacks? Since I don't use manual attacks, I don't know.

 

I have also been disappointed with the performance of my Bludgeon skill tree abilities. I don't get to play every day, sometimes I miss a week, but I did spend the time to improve the actual skills (even disabling the root "Bludgeon Combat" for a short time to help train up the higher tiers).

This could use some more balancing.

 

Both autoattack and manual modes have grown on me and are useful in different situations, and playstyles.. that said, I will probably use a combination of both and have been so far. I don't think it is viable to make a pure build, and have found when I gave that idea up, my character has done a lot better, in many areas, in different types of gear.. autoattack is invaluable sometimes, but when I'm feeling like adding some challenge and excitement, manual mode makes this happen (this is where skill training is useful of course). I only pve (tho my pvp flag is set to on) so that's my experience and opinion now. Gonna get my bludgeon up to 80 (almost 78 now) for autoattack then turn that one off and work on the skills..

 

For the sake of this discussion, some of the relevant skills in my build are:
Bladed Combat 94
Thrust 57
Double Slash 57

When I use auto attack, it is quite effective. When I use Thrust and/or Double Slash, it is much more effective.

I have no problem with auto attack as it currently is.

 

I think also, when we go live, the level progress is to slow down considerably, I believe a dev said this somewhere, sometime, and makes sense, as this game is going to be around for a long time, assuming all 3 (up to 5) chapters are released.. so autoattack just might be the way to endure endless combat

 

I have to experience this still and am looking forward to it Tho so far, I agree with Weins But hey, its great for killin'

 

Well put but I am NOT saying it has to go away I am saying since it really is NOT skill related it should NOT be able to be as powerful as a skilled move. there are some changes coming we shall see how they work

As for gaining trained skills faster - yeah I could have sat a gust ball, if/when I complied enough exp

 

Disabling and Innate has no affect on a Skill gains :-( counter productive

 

It takes less xp from your pool per swing, no? A small 'advantage' in certain situations.. filling up the xp pool is tricky sometimes, tho I just found a good spot