Does anyone else HATE the proposed card system??

I'm not sure about this.... perhaps in early testing we could sample it to see how we like it.

 

Hopefully, it will be available for the alpha. I'm sure if it's universally panned by the players.. they'll scrap it. I'm optimistic that it will add a new, innovative dimension to combat.

 

I was referring to the active/passive combos and synergies. There is an incredible amount of diversity in what you can do with some thought. It makes for some interesting character development and requires players to plan out their abilities to ensure they don't gimp themselves. It's a great aspect of TSW IMO.

 

Right now, I'm firmly in the hate it camp. If there was a super, double down, hate it twice and then again button, I would have picked that.

I'm all for getting away from twitch based combat, something that requires thought, strategy coupled with timing, positioning and equiping the right tools for the right job. But doing so by taking my choices and throwing them in a randomizer doesn't really sound like increasing my strategy abilities.

Thankfully, I think they've begun seeing the cascade logic failure that makes this system unworkable. Originally it said that if you want to drink a potion, you have to put that in your deck. That seems to have been walked back in the recent Star Long interview.

But then it raises the question, if I can just use a wand when ever I want, why would I bother putting spells in my bag? They're unlikely to be there the moment I need them, or I have to lower my possibilities to have them on hand. So now there's no point in me being a mage. Not in any real sense. And not that there aren't other problems with saying "Oh, you don't remember the fireball you prepared right now, because we say so... even though it's the first thing you as a player think of when 50 goblins come over the hill".

So, if they walk that back, and let you cast spells whenever, then all this is for is a 'opportunity' draw for fighters. Which doesn't seem worth the work, and makes fighting horribly underpowered.

That's not to say I don't understand the goal... but it doesn't actually have me thinking about my tactics. It doesn't hav me thinking about strategy. Not in any meaningful way. Yes, I've been a Dominion and Magic player for years. I find them fun even. But that's a different type of game, with a different type of goal that doesn't translate well into a classic RPG.

If you want to change things up to where players need to think about what they're doing more, simply add 'warm ups' to skills. Where they have to do things to create openings for their special moves. Maybe steady shot requires you to not move for so long, or critical attack requires you to be close to your target long enough to pin point a weakness. Or you just straight up add an agression metere that unlocks certain skills when it's high enough, leaving you to think do I take this mid teir attack now and waste my agression? Or let it build for a big one later.

That's just off the top of my head.

As for twitch gaming, I don't see how anyone thinks this will detract from that... if anything it will add to it, as your runes/cards come up and you have to click them and move on, not able to just wait for an opening, plan your timing, etc.

But really, as long as combat is real time and not turnbased... some twitch will be involved. It will require some player skill and agency. If it's too much, you can always turn down the pace for balance. But simply taking your skills away from you to dole out when they randomly choose to doesn't sound good to me.

As always though, I reserve the right to be wrong. But they really have to prove it to me at this point. I've written and workd on my own systems, understand balance, and while I can see how this has potential as it's own game, I don't see it working in this frame work. I only see it as frustrating as players can't really express themselves because the game gets between them and their decisions on what to do next.

I've beat up on this topic in plenty of other threads, and know I can get long winded, so this is my only post in the thread. If you want to talk to me about it, PM me.

 

I'm sorry, but the new card system just does not appeal to me. Its an interesting concept. But I would prefer a more traditional system too.

 

Crap, I hate being such an unskilled newb for liking new ideas all the time

 

I think the proposed card system/randomization is crazy lol

 

Yeah that is one of the strangest things I've heard, trying to make CCG combat in a PC game. Especially the random draws, this makes it pointless to even PvP because it removes my l337 skills from the combat equasion and simply gives an unfair advantage to people who wouldn't normally even be able to touch me.

Just give me an E-Bolt so I can spray and pray that baby at everything I see on my screen with my macro programs please.

 

The logical (and extreme) ultimate expression of what you've outlined is:

Two players meet on the field of PvP. Once within a certain range of each other, the computer generates a random number between 1 and 100. If the number is 1 to 50, player 1 dies. If the number is 51 to 100, player 2 dies.

Challenging fun? Rewarding to players that pay attention? Not so much.

 

This is the reason I am glad they are looking for something new and different.

 

Amen, tired of the same old formula and looking forward to a new challenge. And...if it doesn't turn out to be fun the Dev Team has said they have schedule time/resources to "undo" the card system. Look forward to the Alpha

 

One game that I still love to this day is Asheron's Call because it had a true class less system. You could pump skills points into any ability and you also had that skill raised by how often one used a skill. You could pump as many points as you wanted into any skill if you had the points. This gave one the freedom to really develop your character to your playing style. That freedom that I could be anything I wanted and learn whatever whenever kept me playing for a very long time. I loved every minute of it. I have not been able to read everything on this site but I hope that is the direction the developers are going...Freedom and limitless.

 

While I don't agree entirely with his post, I don't think that the progression you outlined is logical. I will give you the extreme, though. When players are moving forward with "one-shot-one-kill" type weapons, as in CoD for example, they don't just walk forward spraying rounds and wait to see who the computer likes better. He did mention his l337 skills, I choose to assume they consist of more than just button mashing an OP macro. There is some real merit to questioning this "card based" system. That said, I intend to wait for Alpha, see what Portalarium actually intends to do, and THEN I'll whine and cry about it.

 

I dont think I would like any system that requires a Character to "Conveniently Forget" hlaf his accumulated knowledge/skills for a battle.....you either know something or you dont, it isn't situational. But I am willing to try anything once.

 

Yeah, it does seem to take accumulated skills and knowledge somewhat out of the equation and force you to rely more on luck. Even if you have well-constructed decks (sorry, "lists" - thinking back to my days of playing Magic:The Gathering), you still have to hope that the desired spell or combat manuever pops up onscreen at the right time. Furthermore, you better have quick reflexes because you only have 2-3 seconds to decide before it fades away and the next spell or combat manuever appears onscreen. Quite frankly, this could be rather distracting keeping track of all of the icons popping up onscreen while the enemy is trying to kill you. Certainly an innovative approach, but I definitely think this will turn off those accustomed to a more traditional RPG combat system...

 

Actually I think if I understand it correctly it might just be brilliant. It would free up the player to actually enjoying watching the character fight instead of being obsessed with key smashing. I always hated that in games where every battle was f1 f2 f3 omg heal f5. again f1 f2 f3. No more watching cool down timers! Whatever cards you picked and used in battle I assume would gain experience and go up levels of skill as used. To me this type of system seems much more relaxing and fun but we all will have to wait and see just how it works. I am just guessing based off what I saw in one of the videos.

 

Referring to a card system was not the best idea as they started speaking of the proposed system, as LB said in a hangout (which one, can't remember).
I'm liking the idea: you prepare some skills to be used in a battle - however the occasion of being able to do something doesn't come up always as you'd like. It's like you practice especially some techniques when preparing for a fight. As in real life, those techniques will be your advantages in the following fight as you've prepared for it. Sometimes the opponent has focused on countering your strengths so well that it doesn't go your way, or vice versa you might easily overcome the challenge. In a fight opportunities come and go all the time, sometimes you can't take advantage on a single moment in the fight, sometimes you can... it's just how it goes and I think it will work in the game as well.

It feels like a good type of reality to me, as fights are about having opportunities and using them, sometimes a fight can take surprising turns and ultimately the one that can adapt o the situation better, prevails. That's just how I feel about this system, and I'm liking it. People just have gotten stuck with the "card game". With this kind of system there might be a new kind of feeling of a risk when entering combat, and it might even be surprising for a change. We just need to see how it works in testing. I think we could refer to this as a X-factor in a combat situation.

 

I wanted to put not sure but something in my stomach tell's me this is going to be bad and I had to go with my gut. Lesson's learned from past mmo's I assume. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

Yes. This.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard after a battle or tournament fight in the SCA, a fighter bemoaning how he or she wishes they had spent more time practicing this kind of move, or how to counter that kind of weapon better... it's not that they don't know it or understand it, but they hadn't prepped for it recently enough and were a hair slower than their opponent, and so lost.

 

I absolutly hate the card Idea!!! so many good games have been ruined by card interference! Whatever happened to good ole person against person? If the other guy has better stuff than you then you have 2 options run or fight, no matter what you do there will be one winner and one loser if your the loser chalk it up as a learning experience, get better gear armor or magic, and save a fight for a better day. I too am SCA and if a Heavy fighter is moaning and groaning about losing a fight, they never shouldve stepped into that competition, learn all the weapons and learn from your opponents, you never lose a match you learn from it!