Things to improve the game: Monoscale map, isometric view, daily NPC schedules..

First of all I want to say that I am very excited about a new single-player-RPG by Lord British. But there are some things I don't like that much in the current portotype, so I thought to share with you my thoughts on what could make the game even better.

Monoscale vs. Dual-Scale Map
Right now the game uses a dual-scale map where you walk around on a "map view" and enter adventure zones in which you roam around in third-person view.
I believe that a monoscale map like in Ultima 6-9 and UO would be better and add to the immersion of the game as well as the feeling of being in an "alive" world.
Let me explain: Image wandering around on a monoscale map. You walk through a meadow on your way to the next city, picking up herbs and mushrooms and you discover a skeleton in the grass. You search it and find a clue to an abandoned hut nearby. You travel there, meeting some deer on the way which you can hunt. You arrive at the shack and enter it. Beneath rubble and old furniture (which you move away) you find a trapdoor, open it and enter a dungeon - everything seamless and without loading times on the same map.
With the dual-scale map you would walk around in the map-view, discover an adventure zone, enter it, pick up herbs, go back to world view, enter a new adventure zone, look around in third person view to discover the skeleton, go back to world view, see the deer, enter an adventure zone, hunt the deer, go back to map view, enter an adventure zone to finde the shack etc.
The loading times as well as the constant change between perspectives would break the immersion and rip you out of the gaming experience.

Therefore I think a monoscale map with zoomable and maybe rotatable isometric view would be much better for immersion.

Constant isometric view vs. perspective changes
As the Unity engine is used I also think that a constant isometric view would be better as the engine has its issues which show even more in first- and third-person view. How great an isometric game with the Unity-engine can look shows Wasteland 2.
Even on a monoscale map playerhousing would be possible as you have some special places in and around cities where you can build houses. Without the houses you have grasslands there... You can limit the space of player houses on a monoscale map, too.

Imagine something like this for the whole game:
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/images/a/ad/ShameU9Concept.jpg
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/images/c/cc/DeceitU9Concept.png
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/images/5/54/CovetousU9Concept.png
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/images/d/da/Brtainconcept.jpg
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/images/9/90/AsylumU9Concept.jpg

Daily NPC schedules
As Shroud of the Avatar is a spiritual successor of Ultima and Richard Garriott said in the live stream yesterday that they want to have the interactivity of Ultima VII in the world, I think that daily schedules for NPCs is a must. I want to see them get up in the morning, walk to their workingplace, work, go the a pub in the eveing and back home to bed. This would also add to the immersion of the world.
Also I hope that the NPCs in the world will be as fleshed out as those in Ultima VII with their own personalities and agendas.

I believe that those changes alone would make the game much better.

 

Personally I'd prefer an isometric view overall, I don't like 3rd person or 1st person too much.

 

Great post, I definitely agree with the monoscale opinion due to my own experiences in UO. I use to spend a lot of time in the forest south of Britania tracking and hunting animals as well as gathering resources, and going to and from town, and I do worry that my suspended disbelief will be hindered having to switch between map views.

I understand the duel scale benefits for the town and city aspects when it comes to sieges, but could there not be a way to meld a duel and monoscale map, so if you want to explore the world without having to "exit" an instance to go to the next instance(I.E. going from a forest to a field, a swampy jungle to a mountain range, or a town to the farm fields) you may do so, or you can exit an instanced area and go to a world map to make travel faster, or possible see if a town is under attack(a few instances away) before you get there.

It would seem to me that you could keep the uniqueness of a personalized town in view from another instance without having to leave that instance if you don't want to. Such as walking through the plains instance right into a town instance.

 

I agree with both of You. But it would be even better to be able to play in isometric or tpp if a person wish so.

 

I do like the monoscale approach of U6+, however I recognize the limitations. If you are going to have expansive cities, then the outside world has to be massive or the scale seems awkward. This means your often left with empty forest or else towns almost blending into one another. Assuming you don't have a massive team

 

I agree with the points raised monoscale and isometric would be great.

 

I wonder...
Will there be any gathering aspect to the game (for crafting).

How will players be able to chop lumber, fish, hunt wild game using a dual-scale map?

Will there be random encounter bubbles in the world map saying "come, we have wild game for you to hunt, skin and cook"?
How long will these encounter bubbles stay open?
Will other players be able to see the same bubbles?

Or is gathering and crafting only in designated bubbles? Like Cities.

 

Richard Garriott said that one of the choices for a dual-scale map was that they wanted to focus on the scenarios like sieges etc. But Skyrim showed that such things are possible in an open world...

 

Skyrim probably also required more money to make.

 

open world map, please

 

I also prefer the isometric view of Ultima 7 and Ultima Online. It has a certain character to it that is hard to match in other perspectives.

That said, besides the Ultima series I'm also a big fan of the old NES and SNES Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games. They used a similar overworld map view that was also full of style despite any graphic limitations of the time.

Maybe its just nostalgia talking, but if they can combine the best elements of all those old classic series, I think I could get used to the constant persepective changes.

The other thing we have to remember is that the graphics shown are just an early prototype and a small part of the world.

 

Lord_Darkmoon +1

 

Just my 2c here, but the biggest benefit of the dual scale map that I find is that it really enhances the sense of scale that the map encompasses... where a single-scale map can make it feel like the entire explorable world is only a handful of kilometers from one side to the other, and may only be reasonably the size of a single city, while a dual scale map easily creates the sense that what may be the exact same distance on screen is actually a hundred times that distance, or sometimes even more.

 

markt "Just my 2c here, but the biggest benefit of the dual scale map that I find is that it really enhances the sense of scale that the map encompasses? where a single-scale map can make it feel like the entire explorable world is only a handful of kilometers from one side to the other, and may only be reasonably the size of a single city, "

Not at all. A sense of scale is created based on the size of scenery, structures etc. If you look at a World map you will feel a sense of scale too.
This can all be realized in a seamless virtual world.

 

I can only speak from personal experience here, but I've played both monoscale games and dual scale ones, and all of the ones I've ever played that used a single scale for the entire explorable world ended up with the world actually feeling like it was not substantially larger than what might otherwise be able to fit in the area a few dozen square km at most.

That's not to say that I need a game to be dual-scale or I just won't bother playing it... in the end, it's really the scope of the content that makes a game worthwhile, not necessarily how much geographical area it approximates. I'm just saying that it's something I really noticed when I first played Ultima 6, for instance, and Britannia felt a whole lot tinier to me when I played that game than it had ever felt to me before. The distance from Trinsic to Britain, for instance, felt like a considerable trek in previous installations of the series, but because of the game using the same scale inside of a town as outside of it in Ultima 6, it felt as if Trinsic were really no more than a kilometer or two from the capital. It presented a drastically reduced sense of scale of the terrain, and I have to honestly say that there was definitely a part of me that kind of missed that.

Like I said though... it's just my 2c. An expression of my own personal views, nothing more.

 

@markt "because of the game using the same scale inside of a town as outside of it in Ultima 6, it felt as if Trinsic were really no more than a kilometer or two from the capital"

Graphics have advanced much since Ultima 6.

For example the world of Skyrim does have a good sense of scale, freedom and immersion. Much better than an abstract 3D travel map.

 

+1 for monoscale

 

Town-sizes like in Ultima VII would be totally fine with me.

 

I must<strong> completely agree <strong>with the idea of isometric view and mono scale map. These features were the heart of UO and the reason why i stayed loyal to UO until the very end. I fear without these features this game may feel similar to other RPG's and become lost in the crowed.

 

Guys, you're missing a very important and clear point in the FAQ:

"We have already invested quite a bit in the pre-production of Shroud of the Avatar. But we need your help in order to finish Shroud of the Avatar. By supporting this project, you will be able to collaborate with the developers, lending your voice to what features you would like to see added."

Added.

I personally prefer Dual-Scale maps because I'm just an old RPG gamer and we old farts are like that.