Concerns with Selective Multiplayer

I am confused. Shroud of the Avatar is supposed to be "a Selective Multiplayer game, allowing players to choose how they want to play!"

But with recent changes the game shifts more and more towards a MMORPG. So players who choose to play alone or with friends are now penalized as players in OPO mode get more EXP. Those who flag themselves for PVP and play in OPO get more EXP, which at least to my understanding goes against the consensual PVP approach.

According to the Kickstarter website this game was never inteded to be a MMORPG - it even says so in the FAQ. Yet Portalarium now wants more and more players to play in the MMO-mode, removing incentives to play the way we want. It is a gentle shoving towards MMO-mode.
All of those changes for me read like: "If you don't want to play in MMO-mode and do PvP then others will level faster than you, become better than you - it is your choice, but I would really think about it!"

With more and more advantages for playing in MMO mode there is less and less choice to play the way I want to play. Unless I accept to be a player of second class and get penalized. This for me is no longer Selective Multiplayer. It is "Better play in MMO-mode!"

I can't help myself but all of this gives me the impression that the devs seem to think that the Selective Multiplayer approach RG invented was a bad idea. It interferes with the player driven economy, it interferes with a big population in the world, it interferes with PvP...

If the devs want to create incentives for players to play in different modes, why are those incentives only there for the OPO mode? What do I get as bonus when I choose to play alone or with friends? Why are only MMO players getting a bonus?

An incentive should never be a penalty, too. But exactly this is happening. Giving a bonus to MMO players is penalizing those who want to play in SPO or FPO. Or would it be ok for MMO players if SPO player would get a bonus and they wouldn't?

The same with PvP zones that force me into PvP. So I choose to play in single player as an explorer, wanting to see the whole world. But then in this zone the choices are ripped from me. I no longer can choose to enter this zone alone. I no longer can choose to not take part in PvP and I no longer can choose to be an explorer. So much for "a Selective Multiplayer game, allowing players to choose how they want to play!"

And me choosing how I want to play is more and more removed when ONE mode is favoured above the others when originally all of the modes should have been equal.

The whole game seems to become more focused on the MMO part. How much fun is it to play in single player or friends mode? Not to speak about the obviously unloved stepchild offline mode... All of the development seems to focus on making the MMO mode fun.

So what is happening to the original concept of the game? The Selective Multiplayer? The "allowing players to choose how they want to play"?

 

There is a bonus to playing alone. I am sure you can figure out what that is.

There is a bonus to playing only with friends. Your with..well...friends. Unless you don't like your friends.

The trouble is you think only about yourself. How does <insert change here> benefit YOU. It's not all about you.

The multiplayer PVP change is interesting. It will get nerfed anyways, once people realize that it will help them farm the CP's for exp. While I am sure some conflict may occur between rival people, odds are you aren't going to tangle with the 6 people strong enough to camp a CP for exp. I know we are planning to use it.

Change to pvp mode....teleport to CP.....farm exp....recall back to home base....flag back to non pvp.

 

Selective Multiplayer was really a bad idea. Just saying

I even believe that the "offline" mode will be discontinued sooner or later.
It eats up too much resources for very little revenue in the long run.
Also the teamsize of Port is just waaaayyyy to small to develop all kind of modes to its fully potential to have a fun/awesome game in each "selective mode", or let's just say for each: the "offline" and the "online" mode.

 

You gotta think about it like this @Lord_Darkmoon ,

If you don't play multiplayer/don't want to play multiplayer, then it doesn't matter what your avatar's 'level' is, persay, compared to anyone else.

The only time it matters if you're a lower 'level' than someone else is when you're PvPing, and thus, in multiplayer mode getting the same experience boost.

So you can't say that it's an unfair advantage for someone who plays in multiplayer to get bonus EXP, and if you can't call it an unfair advantage, then you also can't call it a disadvantage for those who choose not to.

Straight up. Give me one example of why it makes any difference to someone who doesn't play in multiplayer if other people have more combat pool experience or higher combat skills.

 

1. What about those who want to play in different modes? I want to do this quest alone in SPO and afterwards I want to play together with two friends to clear this dungeon. Then I want to go to OPO mode and maybe have some fun with PvP. But what is this? The others are better than me? Just because I wanted to play some time alone and with friends?

2. If it is said that I can play "the way I want to play" but those who play in OPO mode get more EXP and are players first class then this shoves me into OPO mode although I maybe don't want to play in this mode the whole time. Who wants to be treated as a player of second class? Even if I wouldn't need the extra EXP the feeling of being second class is there as others get a bonus. I didn't do anything wrong to not get the bonus. I just did what the game told me, namely "play the way I want".

 

It's more than that. We have to take game balance into account. This change is an attempt at balancing risk versus reward.

If you play in SPO, you're still able to gain experience. If you play OPO multi, you gain more experience, at the risk of losing gear.

I think an experience boost is a good reward for the risk, because there are some players who are already at a high level due to certain previous imbalances. So now people who want to compete will be able to reach that higher level faster, and that's good for balancing PvP given the circumstances.

If you're going to have PvP in the game, with looting privileges, then there's going to be risk that needs to be rewarded. What other way could players be rewarded for taking the risks that would satisfy you, or those who don't want to play in multi mode? Should there be no reward, and thus no balance, rendering that mode flawed?

 

Of course there should be a reward. But one that doesn't penalize the other play modes.
Special PvP gear might be a solution and to more than just this problem. There could be PvP gear that gives a bonus to PvP combat. The ressources to craft this gear are found only when people flag for PvP in certain zones (like Shardfalls). Only when you do PvP you get the bonus from this gear.
So those players who are interested in PvP would get a bonus which would be only for them as all of the others wouldn't be able to use it outside of PvP. So if I don't do PvP I am not affected by this.
But by giving a bonus to playing in MMO-mode and doing PvP this is also a penalty for those who don't want to play in OPO or do PvP.

 

They are not penalizing the other play modes. That is something in your head.

They are rewarding a certain style of play. One which does not interact with you anywhere other then in your head.

The incentive they add to PvP is entirely optional. Some people will take advantage of it. Many will not. It does not prove that the Devs are 'against their own game' nor does it make them against 'selective multiplayer' (whatever the hell that is).

It's only a exp boot for being in PvP mode whilst playing in MP. That's it...no drama...no hysterics....its not the end of all other games as we know it.

It certainly doesn't 'force people to pvp' I will still spend most of my time in non-pvp mode. I have no interest in interacting with the sociopaths. I will, however take full advantage of the gift they have bestowed upon us, and when in a full party grinding exp take the 25% gift, until they realize what they have accomplished and either remove/trivialize it.

 

Well first I want to point out that PvP combat was announced in the kickstarter video. I think given that it's Richard G, who made UO, who is the announcer in the video at least, is telling and that anyone could have expected that there would be some form of risk taken involved with PvP in SotA right from the start.

That said, and I know you're saying that yes, there should be a reward, we have to think of a reward that is both fair and balanced for all.

On special PvP gear, I don't think this is a good idea. The way I see it, an experience boost is a way to bridge the gap that I've mentioned has been created by a lack of balance in experience gains previous to r36. So some people have super built Avatars, while others are way behind, and this makes PvP very unbalanced. By giving players an experience boost, this is very helpful to those players who need to catch up in order to be relevant in PvP.

Conversely, if the reward was PvP gear, the elites would be the ones benefiting from it, because they would be able to monopolize on it, and even further monopolize on it by using it. It just makes the gap even wider, while doing nothing to bridge it. Not to mention that by giving out PvP gear, that just takes away from SPO crafters who are trying to sell non PvP gear, and therefore creates another gap in that market.

If the reward was more gold, somehow, then that creates another gap where PvP elites and high skilled avatars from said previous imbalances dominate every market. So it can't be gold.

I have to disagree with your point that not getting the experience boost makes you second class. Eventually, everyone comes to a point where they can't progress any further, or 'first class' as you call it. It's just going to take you longer if you're not willing to take those risks. Risks which everyone can have expected right from the kickstarter video.

Lets talk about the risks players are facing in OPO multi. Some players are taking all the risk, while other players are taking none, due to this great divide in skill level caused by the mentioned previous game imbalances. The elites are getting all the loot, while the newcomers who weren't around at the time, but want to play the game how they want to (and PvP), are taking all the losses. That's the problem people are dealing with.

Right now, even if it's only temporary, for r36, those players who really need to catch up in order to balance out PvP are going to have a chance to do that because of the experience boost. I can't think of a better reward than an experience boost, given all of this. It makes the game more playable for those newcomers who's playstyle is PvP, eventually everyone that PvP's gets to the exact same level, and then the reward becomes the loot and the PvP is balanced.

So while this fix may make things take a little longer for those people who deviate from one mode to the next, which isn't really a disadvantage that they can't remedy if they're already willing to deviate, those players who are specifically here for one mode, one playstyle (of MMO) and don't want to play any other mode, will be more able to do so than before, while not affecting players who also aren't deviating from non MMO modes.

 

Its not.
I will be only sometimes engage PvP.
If i have to wear special PvP gear i will be never in PvP mode.

 

Compensating players for taking a risk in PVP-mode and the inconvenience of sharing nodes/monsters in Multi is not penalizing anyone. If the compensation is too high, it should and will surely be adjusted.

The logic of someones reward is others' relative penalty could be applied to anything. Like rewarding a player for killing monsters is penalizing those that can't, don't want to and don't have the time to.

 

Right.

I think in this case, you can describe it as follows:

You have players who want to play only in single player online mode, who aren't affected.

You have players who want to play only in multiplayer mode, but not PvP, who aren't affected.

You have players who want to play in only multiplayer mode and PvP, and the game will be more balanced for them.

And then you have players who want to have their cake, and eat it too, and there simply isn't any viable argument that they should be catered to.

 

In my opinion, the "bonus for the PVP flag" is not a good idea. I agree with @Lord_Darkmoon... Erh... Wait ! Did I just told that ? ... Anyway, The goal is to create some incentive for PVP (because, in this game, PVP is not very apealing) as the bonus apply only when you play in multiplayer mode with PVP tag. With the flag bonus, you can farm XP when doing PVE things. Finaly, most of us will probably avoid PVP combat, only to win more XP. We will have big groups moving in CP instances, with no way to do PVP unless you are in a big group yourself.

If there is to be an incentive for PVP, it must apply when a player falls. Not full loot, but something like very good XP reward.

 

You could turn it the other way around:

MMO players get 100 percent of the EXP but SPO and FPO players get 25 percent less.

It is a penalty and it is shoving people more into the MMO part of the game which I really don't uderstand as I thought that all parts would be equal. Obviously I was wrong.
For me this also shows that the whole concept of Selective Multiplayer doesn't seem to work very well. One game mode is the favourite and we all know which mode this is. And it shows. It shows especially with the offline mode but more and more with all of the other modes, too.

As I said there needs to be a reward for flagging for PvP but not at the expense of all of the other modes. It should be something that would be unique to PvP and not affect everything else.

 

There is no bonus at the moment for just being in multiplayer. The "bonus" to party can be had in friends mode. I don't really call that a bonus though since they will still get less xp per kill with their extra added on. I don't see where any of this is forcing anything on anyone. It's a small bonus to pvp characters to counteract all the negatives they already deal with. It's also clearly labeled an experimental change meaning it can and probably will be changed over time. I would prefer it was a small boost to xp in multiplayer with an added boost if you also flag pvp since I always play in multiplayer and will eventually have to compete with others for resources and xp gains, which is atm an advantage of single player and friends modes where they don't have to. Pick your advantage but don't complain when others get one too. Each mode, with the exception of non pvp multi, will have an advantage of one kind or another after this goes live.

 

You're assuming that the goal is to create PvP incentive. They never did say that this was to incentivize PvP, only to reward PvPer's for the risks they take. The goal might actually be to balance out the mode for the people who are using it, and not to incentivize it. In reality, the tiny benefit to experience gains isn't exactly worth losing the type of gear you'd need to kill the same mobs you could kill in SPO to achieve any benefit.

In other words, in SPO you're able to wear your best, most expensive gear, with no risk of losing it, and thus able to take down bigger, badder mobs for more experience. In OPO multi, to gain any benefit from this at 10% experience bonus, you need to be wearing the same gear, and risking losing it, or wear shite gear and only be able to kill lesser mobs for overall lower experience per time.

And you're speculating that it will become an issue where players will farm in OPO multi in big groups, which is ok, and yes it might happen, and if it does cause such a problem I'm sure they will cancel it out. A change like this pretty much needs to be live tested to see how it works out, so fortunately any changes that are made can always be un-made. It's not a good excuse for never testing it out. @Chris even said it's an 'experimental' change intended for testing and likely to be nerfed very quickly, I think because the bonus might prove to be a bit high and 'forcing' people to feel left out. Still a VERY long way from being able to call the developers ''out of their minds!!1'' or ''against their own game?!?'' lol

If the benefit was a boost for killing another player, then people would just BOT it on their alts. lol.. I think they're doing it this way because like I said, it will help people who are behind in experience catch up, and those people are losing their gear, and needing to go farm or craft more, at which time they will benefit from the experience boost.

No, you can't ''turn it the other way around''

If you do, then and only then does it become a penalty, and one that actually makes skill gain way, way harder for anyone in SPO. You end up gaining less experience pool per mob than you use! It's totally different than what's actually going to happen, and therefore not comparable.

If you ever thought that single player, friends only, multiplayer, OPO would be 100% perfectly balanced and equal then you must have a LOT of confidence in RG, if you thought he'd be able to make these modes (which are inherently different, each with their own advantages and disadvantages naturally) perfectly equal.

A 25% experience bonus for testing purposes which will likely become a 10% experience boost thereafter isn't worth losing the type of gear you'd need to be killing the same mobs you're capable of in SPO. 25% might be a small advantage in that regard, but 10% becomes a giant disadvantage as soon as you lose your first piece of gear.

 

If you really wanted to play only solo or with friends you shouldnt care whats happening with multiplayer.... so what multiplayer mode is getting better exp? If you are playing alone or with friends that would not matter to you.... for real.. thats a bitching we dont need!

 

1)SPO players have HUGE bonus - zero competition for resourses and exp with other players, even if MPO will have 100% bonus to EXP this bonus should be much less than SPO bonus which have SPO players.
2) In future when more and more players will play this game(zero competition bonus in SPO will be VERY significant)

 

SotA is a Sandbox MMO that also provides a single player narrative. The selective online modes as I see them are convenience features for players and should have never been considered alternatives to the MMO. Too many people have become comfortable with playing solo in order to maximize their XP and node gains and it's disrupting the natural progression of the game - game mechanics are dependent on multiplayer participation and the bonus is needed to balance the XP gain between the modes.

 

If all this continues people will be able to SPO on MPO anyway :3