Why did I love Ultima 7, and am 'meh' about SotA?

I love the Ultima single player games. Especially Ultima 3 and Ultima 9.

I started playing Ultimas in 1983.

Ultima 3 let me have 4 player characters that I controlled. They did not whine about eating or other things. I could make the any class, so if I wanted 4 mages I could. It was the best D&D simulator in 1983. I loved the story line of Ultima 9. The 3D world way great for its day. I show everyone Ultima 9 first when they are newly playing an Ultima for the first time. The story line for Ultima 9 really shines to me.

The rest of the Ultima single player games were play once, enjoy it, shelf it for all eternity. Remain in my personal collection at Ultimamuseum.com. The feelies are great In every Ultima game.

Single player in SOTA is my end game. When Portalarium shuts down I expect them to just release a final version that I can play onwards forever on my PC in SPOffline. This will be in 10+ years at least if not more. I have bought everything I need for Dara Brae on my account to keep it alive for posterity.

For me, I would rate the games in order from best to worst : SOTA, Ultima 3, Ultima 9, then all other Single player Ultimas. Finally UO at the bottom. UO was very frustrating with the egos of the l33t until EA fixed it with TRAMMEL! I still play UO occasionally, as SOTA really replaced it.

I still love all of the worlds Richard Garriott created. Host storylines and his decisions is what makes an Ultima an Ultima! Without him it is just another blah RPG. Remember Lords of Ultima and Ultima Foerver? Not Ultima.

 

That approach was suggested to them during the KS but clearly they had a different goal. The priority to build the MMO features first certainly makes the wait that much worse, both in terms of time and expectations.

For now, have fun re-playing Ultima 7. And there are many great single player RPGs out there to enjoy. And then come back in a couple years. Perhaps by then, the current story-based feature set will be more polished and expanded, along with some new ones to support that single player experience even more. Okay, maybe in another 4 years.

 

Thinking about this it is strange, isn't it?
During the Kickstarter campaign it was said that SotA is not an MMORPG but when they started creating the game in earnest they suddenly had to create the MMO part first? What MMO part if the game is no MMO?
Yes we all know that the game changed although the devs don't admit it. But this is proof that it changed. Announce a game that is not an MMORPG but then the MMO part has to be worked on first...

 

Man, I hear you. I wish you had been with us when they had the Shroud Q&A at the Dragon party to discuss so much of this, as I admittedly ambushed poor @DarkStarr and later grilled the heck out of @Lord British during the questions. I'm -ALL- about the story and lore for the games; I would really give a crap less if we were playing a MUD at this point (GemStone III!), as long as the characters, story, and lore were engaging and kept me immersed in the world.

Bottom line, it ain't done. Even more bottom line, Richard admits it's not fully written and very fluid, as they don't feel comfortable "sticking a fork" as canon, since so much of the quests and outlines are still changing. And I have to say, I do get that. I've been screaming bloody murder for years now wanting the basic background (NOT THE SPOILERS!), but just the same stuff we were so used to and enjoyed getting from just the incredibly detailed manuals that we loved to pore through. Especially for a game based on ROLEPLAYING, it's so vital to understand the world our Avatars will be roaming through, so we also know our place and path throughout.

I'd love to be creatively writing about my character. I'd love to be coming up with quests and stories around the world. I'd -LOVE- to actually research and learn the scattered lore of New Britannia, and see how the Shardfalls have changed from what was lost. ALL OF THAT, as that is what basically made the Ultima games so memorable for me; the continually growing story and how the choices were reflected by it. That's what makes it, frankly, an "Ultima" type game as opposed to so many other RPGs that are out there.

However, that said, I also get that it's not been a burning priority as they were working on the rest of the world. The current update is that by around July (NOT LAWYERING, BRO!) we should see a major story/lore release that will help address these concerns, and will hopefully get people excited about the world. I'm in a similar state as you; I see the potential and want to experience it, but it's just not available yet.

So, short version, I would urge a little more patience to see what is coming. I do understand that people are frustrated at how long it has taken, and would also agree that sometimes you just have to take the break to let it get done. I will also caution that like you, I'm a HUGE Ultima lore nut and loved knowing all that lore going into the later games. Clearly, this is NOT an Ultima sequel; it should have the same level of detail that we've loved, but everything will be completely new, as it is a brand new world and universe to explore. There will have to be some reasonable expectation that it will take that time to learn, and experience how it affects our final enjoyment.

/2 cents

 

@HoustonDragon Thank you my friend for your report about the Shroud Q&A at the Dragon party

Actually I have no problem with waiting - if I can see that everything is heading in the right direction. Unfortunately I'm not so sure. My real problem is, that I fear the development of this game might collapse because the money runs out. Most reviews on Steam are bad, not to mention the reddit postings. That's not good for getting new customers. And this game need new people and new money.

What can Port do when the money's tight? Creating things for the add-on store? Which costs time of development and increase the time until the game is ready for release? There is a good chance that this might cause a vicious circle

 

Reviews on steam have become better last time I checked. Problem is they get downvoted and don't appear as most helpful. Overall trend is positive again on steam since the latest releases.

 

I asked the same question when I was there, as I have the same concern. There's a finite amount of capital that can be drawn from the existing pool of players (only so much blood in that rock ), and from a long term perspective, they have to be able to bring in new blood (and potentially new income) from opening the markets. The thing that has prevented it so far is the fact they ARE Early Access, and are not ready to float it as a "completed product". In talking with @DarkStarr at the time (and feel free to correct me, if I'm mistaken, lawyer bro!), the comment was that they have the resources to complete Episode 1, and then the goal would be to start the advertising blitz including new trailer, Steam, etc. There was also mention of potentially having an investment company at that point, but I'll leave that for Starr, Dallas, etc to let us know what their plans are.

As for the Steam reviews, I'll be blunt. They suck, and there's a large reason why Steam got rid of the Greenlight process recently, and why Early Access games tend to carry a large nasty stigma anyway. There's a LOT of crappy games out there, and a lot that definitely deserve all the scorn that gets heaped on them. In the case of Shroud, to be perfectly blunt, the game presently has a lot going for it in terms of gameplay and ESPECIALLY the community. The community and the active players definitely deserve a lot of the kudos and shout-out in keeping the feedback and development on-going. That said, there's also equally A LOT of things admittedly left unfinished: story, gameplay systems, artwork, etc.

@Lord British actually made a special point of bringing up the opening introduction for Shroud, and how it was still clunky and sometimes counter-intuitive that caused frustration for new players. That stuff is definitely on their radar, as I do agree it is not good for new players to be discouraged. Will the game be perfect? Nah, and I do have my own reservations regarding how it will compete in the MMO market against so many others out there. I think it has strong potential for a niche specifically since it has such a strong community already; I simply also want to see it expand and grow to remain financially feasible since, after all, Portalarium needs to pay bills, employees, etc, and I also really do want to see the future development of the remaining Episodes.

 

I was there to see @HoustonDragon do the grilling - and I can certainly understand some of the impatience, but I can also understand where the dev team is coming from.

I've been in the game since the first release, although I have admittedly taken long breaks between releases. I think that the long breaks have helped me appreciate the changes and the evolution on a larger scope.

I am also predisposed to preternatural patience, probably because my two favorite design teams are the Coles (Lori and Corey Cole) and, of course, Garriott & co. And, to my memory, neither team has ever released a game on time or on original budget.

Mind you, this is 99% of all game development teams, but I'd say that more than others, these two have always taken their time, when they could, to make sure the game they deliver is a good experience. Even at the risk of being overlong. I remember eagerly waiting for each installment of Quest for Glory or Ultima.... and man, could the wait be long!

I think I'm also more likely to take the long game approach because of familiarity with how some of the past Ultimas were designed- that the story for Ultima VI, for example, didn't really come together until a mostly fully functional world had been put in place. I get the impression that SoTA is basically that type of crock-pot meal, and the simmering is just starting after the build-up. It's not there yet, but it's starting to smell like dinner...


And I just made myself hungry. Goddamnit.

 

... now you're just grasping at straws...

*sigh* They sold a multi-player component during the Kickstarter and they obviously need to work on that first.

It really doesn't matter what you call it...

 

Same with my own general feeling about the game. I hit a low point in SOTA probably in the NOV time frame but the past 3 releases have been so kick butt that I am playing more today then ever and really happy with what I am seeing. Im still not happy with PvP, I seem to be the only one asking why a PvP area is being build with the way they still have it designed (aka, needing to split up something into 100 singles so I dont lose anything good). But, like the other 100 posts we have been in, we can jsut keep making suggestions to them.

 

I think a lot of the issues the U7 people have are the same that the UO crowd has.

It is the lack of features they were looking for.

The lack of depth in quests and story, are quite similar to the lack of depth of the guildwar or PVP system of SotA.
Maybe if both the story and the game mechanics that promote conflict and alliances would be more fleshed out both groups would be happier.

Not sure though if this is just a progress issue and the project is just not there yet,
or if the mechanics are fundamentally flawed. For UO sandbox we simply haven't any information or details yet...
How will Virtue and Anti Virtue work and influence the game world?

For story.. I am not sure what else can be done. I haven't played much quests yet. The few I played seemed ok for me... but frankly I didn't feel the same urge to explore and read everything
and it appeared to me more as flavor text. And in the development of my char I just played and killed people.. But that also had no consequences within the game world.

I would be great if we could know more about how the Devs plan to make the game world feel more alive an breathing.

 

I know this story, I've read 'The Official Book Of Ultima' by Shay Addams But when I was waiting for the completion of Ultima VI, I knew already what I will get - a single player Ultima with a deep story, where my choices have consequences and the typically ethical dilemmas I knew since Ultima IV. Here I'm not so sure what I will get - I'm speaking about the single player offline mode. Maybe I will get just an unpopulated MMO world, many cities without any special meaning, companions without a background which are only a kind of pack mule ... And this makes the difference of waiting for Ultima VI and waiting for SotA.

 

I will say, the lack of notable NPCs or companions is something I'm hoping they will work on. Bioware has knocked it out of the park with the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games, where your teammates FEEL like they are living, breathing members of your crew, not simply replaceable faceless minions. I loved learning about the history and personal stories of them, and romance options aside (as that's not relevant to SotA), just the constant interaction between my character and my party was awesome. I -loved- watching them bitching and griping at each other, or cracking jokes, or even sympathizing over something that had NOTHING to do with my character specifically, but what added that much more life to the game.

Makes a difference between watching something and actually experiencing it.

 

I agree.

Of course, Ultima also had those

 

ME1 and DA1 I liked...
I felt the exact opposite with the later titles... The characters were really flat due to the fact that they had to fulfill every role or sexual orientation the player intended them to have. So it became kinda obvious what your dialog options would result in IMHO. Ultima7 did a way better job at this...

 

It almost feels to me like Portalarium need to spend a bunch of money and ramp up a whole new team focused solely on the story/quest side of SOTA. At the moment the bulk of the work falls on @Lum the Mad 's shoulders but they need a whole unit working on this stuff. I'm sure they can pull together some funds to do this!

 

That's another reason I keep harping on wanting Bioware to develop the Ultima IP (since EA already owns it). Ian Frazier is one of the Ultima Dragons, and led the group that created the Ultima V: Lazarus remake, and was the lead developer for the new Mass Effect: Andromeda game.

 

I think POT owners or people like me who want sandbox elements would love to have a extra unit to work on their stuff

 

I think we have enough theme-park development for the moment. Now it's about time to finally forge the story

 

I agree, they should focus on Story and Sandbox elements which they promised in the KS. I can see story updates every release note.. Hardly any sand in the box for players that play the game and haven't spent a fortune and hardly any news about that...