Decay revisited from a different perspective and an alternative

This exact same thing has been happening within my guild. People have stepped back from playing due to the hours lost with a death.

 

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

I agree with you here. Casual players should not be punished and God forbid I want to spend a week in Branson and take in a Yakov Smirnoff show or 2. There is a solution. All decay whether it is disuse or death should only accrue while you are playing.

Yes. It is fun to do things that kill you. Being extremely careful so I don't get killed is boring, I do it every day in real life.

Grinding endlessly to try to get ahead is something else I do in real life for 40 hours+ per week. Again this isn't fun for most people. Don't get me wrong, I have spent an embarrassing amount of time in a perma-death mmorpg grinding areas for maximum xp gain while at 0 risk of being killed. I can do it, I just don't think it is fair to ask an entire player base to do it.
I haven't played SOTA since before decay was put in, I think I'm going to wait for release at this point but if I did start playing again I would have no problem farming halberds for hours on end since that would be a safe activity to keep me from death decay. Again, I'm not normal and I would never expect the average casual player to spend hours grinding in safe areas to build up the skills to hopefully not get killed while trying to have a little fun.

 

I mostly agree with @Mac2 here. Actually, I think that we're reasonably close to something decent, the only thing missing is a way to mitigate decay for casuals and non-top tier players. Chris has mentioned letting players clear some decay each day by visiting the oracle, and I think that could fix problems for casual players. You just set the Oracle clear reasonably high and increase it with adventurer level, but have the curve be flatter than the xp curve is. This provides an easily tunable mechanic to tweak decay for lower level players without making it pointless for its intended purpose. In addition, let it increase as a function of time since last experience gain (logged in or out), so XP decay is even less of a factor if you only have a limited time to play.

 

If they don't change it just tell me now in the next telethon where it is going to end. Then I can decide now If I have enough time to commit to this game only playing a few hours a night. Right now adventurer level is 85 and unless I am doing boring exp farming, I am barely breaking even for the day with exp. iF this is the expectation, that 85 is the cap for someone with 2-3 hours to play, unless they grind those hours away? If so then I am done, this system is just anoying and brings nothing of value to this game.

 

And....

If this continues how is anything ever suppose to balance out. Playing games previously with limited time I always new it would take me longer to get there, but I could always get there over a longer period of time. By this decay working of real world
Time and not ingame time there is never a chance for me to get anywhere until I get more time to play or just do really boring things while playing. I hope this wasn't the intended effect of this decay system but it is certainly the effect it has.

 

@Attenwood @Lord British

Ok, thank you @Mac2 for your comments and willingness to share the fact that you carry at least 143 GM's, down from your high of 151. At least the readers will be able to see where you're coming from and why.
Now, I will address your concerns and comments.

Yes, I know you do, but the VAST MAJORITY of Avatars do NOT. The last time I saw your GM list was a couple of months after wipe and by that time you were already at 110 GM's. We can discuss the manner in which you obtained so many in such a short amount of time if you wish. Perhaps we'll all learn something useful.

Absolutely not, and that's why I'd like a discussion regarding that aspect. I would add to my suggestion of skill decay based on DISUSE by having decay present ONLY when in a scene with mobs - not in town or on the overworld or on vacation.
Have skill decay based on DISUSE while in a mob scene and at no other time. That way decay won't hit when you're away or doing things other than fighting mobs.

You have special PvP skills that non PvP'rs don't have ? Oh, and how much decay do you suffer from dying in PvP ?

Issue addressed above.... Decay on DISUSE should only accumulate during the time you are in a mob fighting scene and at no other time.
Would you be OK with it then ?

Wow, you seem to making my argument for me. The current decay system does just exactly that. Force players like myself and my guild mates to just be satisfied doing the same grind over and over, since dying daily is out of the question.

I fully understand that you would not be in favor of ANY system that might cause you to not easily be able to maintain 143 GM's, but that is EXACTLY what Chris has said that he brought death decay IN for.
The current system does nothing to further that end for you, since you have sufficient options (GM's) to NEVER die unless you choose to allow it. But it is a game breaking deterrence to the bulk of the rest of us who want to adventure and press the envelope without a penalty to our hard earned skills when we die.

Here's a start.
Make DISUSED skills suffer decay, but only during times in areas with mobs to fight. NO decay at any other time.
How's that ?

 

There are to many other things a person likes to do, and to penalize them for not grinding, because they want to do some crafting, or mining, or do a dance party, or fashion show, or decorate, or setup a town, or go recruiting for the guild, ect ect ect, is just stupid. You dont like decay from death, but have no problem with decay from nothing? You talk about grinding endlessly, yet, you want people to be forced to grind whenever they are on, or suffer from decay, even without death. There are times when I have been crafting and refining for over a week, and you want me to suffer for that? OH YA, you will answer this yes. I just don't understand how you dont want to force people to grind, yet want to implement something that forces people to grind, and thats all they can do or suffer loss of what they did grind so far, this makes absolutely no sense. This game offers more then just a grind, and to be penalized because you want to do something else, I just shake my head at these ideas and the lack of foresight in them.

 

I'd like to see Chris set decay to only accumulate while online adventuring, like he said he was going to. If that is too punishing to his 1 Percenters, he should put a cap on how much can accumulate for them...whatever he thinks a fair number is.

Currently, my casual playstyle of only getting on for a few hours, a few days a week, for a guild adventure is being strained since I typically die a couple times.

I still believe I should have to work hard to make good progress, but it doesn't sit right with me to suffer 24 hours of penalty if I've only played for 2 hours.

 

It would not be, as you say: "decay from nothing".
It would be skill decay from fighting without using all your skills. Decay from DISUSE, which btw is how a skill would decay normally - not on death.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...oding-the-oracle-questions.90981/#post-819133

 

It was not really a short amount of time when you consider the hours I have played. It also helped having good knowledge of the game and knowing exactly the build I wanted to get exp fast, and at the time that was an aoe shield mage. I played hard at the start, like 20 hours a day, worked my way up to grinding deep ravenswood for like 600k an hour. After that, it was control points. But so many people complained about the exp a few of us were making doing that, they took it away, and shut the door behind us. Then it was mages in the rise, and now its monkeys in krul.

Mobs exist in mines, what about pvp areas, your not grinding mobs when pvping, and often using different skills.

Ummm ya, torpid torment, confusion, tabula rasa, and other skills I have pretty much only for pvp. If you want to be pve and waste exp on those skills, go ahead, be my guest. I don't know if they fixed the pvp decay bug, but there is not suppose to decay from pvp. BUT what you are suggesting WILL cause decay from not using your pvp skills because you are not pvping. I can't believe I have to explain this, no foresight.

Ummm, my death decaying because I am fighting undead, and death skills do nothing to them. Still active in a mob scene, still going to suffer from decay with the system you want to have in place. Same thing goes with fighting mages in the rise, still in a mob scene, still going to suffer from decay with the system you want to have in place. Did you even think about what I really said there, your answer does not fit. Maybe this time it will be clear.

Umm dude, you dont LOSE anything buy not doing anything, you suggestion is WAY worse as you will lose by not doing anything. Do I really need to explain your own idea to you and show you the difference? Like talking to walls sometimes I swear.

Another one of these people who think I am some kind of godly force of nature that can look at enemies and they die for me. As you have never actually been to the level I am at to experience it for yourself, I am just curious how you come to this conclusion? Dingle is even high level then me and died 30 times last month. You people really gotta stop making these silly assumptions that you have absolutely no clue about. I just died 2 days ago. Your never die statement is complete BS to try and sway your argument but has no factual information.

As stated above, there are times you are in mob scenes that you are not using all the skills you have at your disposal. Many things are situational, and I just can't agree with this system you suggest for that reason. Has nothing to do with me having a bunch of skills, I am pointing out things that effect everyone, not just me. If I was only worried about me, I would have been all over the increased decay for the higher level the skill is, but I did not. It does allow casual players to suffer less from decay, and I get effected more. Fine, not a problem. I did stick up for the casual players getting hit so hard from decay. I had guildies quit from just not being able to get any gains cuz they died once in a while. Hardly make any exp mining yet die once and lose that last week of exp they gained in the mine. I understand that sucks, and I feel for that situation, I really do. I just think this suggestion is even worse.

 

How about decay only accumulates while your in mob scene AND only when you die? I believe chris even said something about this, don't know what happened with it.

 

OH OH, did not use my glancing blow, because I did not need it to kill the mobs in the mines. I guess I get penalized. OH OH did not use death because I was fighting undead. I guess I get penalized. OH OH lost a bunch of physical defenses because I was fighting mages in the rise. What I mean by doing nothing, is you did not do anything wrong, you were playing, you were just doing something else that required different skills. Can you see how your idea is very limiting and forces someone to grind the same thing all the time, be using the same skills all the time. I like a game I can switch and go do other things and not be penalized for it.

 

He changed his mind last i asked.

 

Ahh, well, that sucks. I do think it should only accumulate when actually playing. I am not a programmer so maybe its not easy, I don't know.

 

Absolutely ! And I'll say why a little ways ahead....

Absolutely ! And I'll say why a little ways ahead....

Absolutely ! And I'll say why a little ways ahead....

Ok, let's back up a little.

The whole reason for skill decay to begin with, is so that everyone can NOT be great in everything.... a soft cap of sorts - diminishing returns as it were. (Not worth it).
So that people can't get, much less maintain, MASSIVE numbers of GM's.

The current system of decay does absolutely nothing that would keep YOU from maintaining your 142 GM's and you know it. You have said as much yourself.

Having decay based on DISUSE both makes complete sense in the logical way a skill would degrade and it would force anyone who wishes to maintain EXCESSIVE numbers of GM's to drop skills on DISUSE.
At least it would make it a serious nuisance to do so, which is exactly what Chris said that a decay system should do. Diminishing returns. Not worth it.

So, in closing that is how decay on DISUSE would accomplish Chris's goal of having no one able to support EXCESSIVE GM's. Diminishing returns. Not worth it.

You are arguing the point from the standpoint of someone with 142 GM's. Exactly the thing Chris's decay system is supposed to address, but does not.

Under a system of decay dependent on DISUSE of skills, if you want to keep your 142 GM's you just gotta' keep using them, or they get rusty. You get decay when you let any of them get rusty.

And once again, this requirement to use skills would not count ANY time as not using them when you're not in a fighting mob scene.
Not when you're crafting, not when you're socializing, on the overworld, in a city or town, or on RL vacation.

Decay would ONLY happen to skills NOT used when actually fighting.

 

Don't think you really have to explain yourself again, but it's funny you think people don't get it. You don't like this system because your entire playtime would be spent maintaining 143 GM's or letting them drop. You've also explained that you got where you are making 1.5 million exp an hour in control points for 20 hours a day. And now can easily maintain and grow fighting the toughest mobs in game at 600k to 900k per hour without worrying about dying or decay. Hmmm... interesting you would be so opposed with these suggestions.

But isn't that the problem with the current system if the intention is to finally bring you back down to a level you should be at?

 

And it's up to you what level that is and how to do it?
Interesting.

 

Had a feeling you'd be responding.
Chris has said that what should be the "norm" as to the number of GM's to carry would be what - 8 to 10 or something.
The whole point of Chris's decay is to keep us from being able to maintain dozens, much less 140 or 150 GM's.
A system based on daily DISUSE would go a long way towards that goal. The current system does not.

Use it or lose it.
Simple as that......

 

Honestly I log into Shroud about 1/10th of what I had been, this is because of the decay system, I can not justify spending hours of time grinding xp just so I can afford a death or two whilst grouping. I also feel terrible if others in my party die. Its just not fun anymore. I've been spending my time on other games, as this has saddened me.